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SAXOMAT Automatic Clutch 1961-1967 - NOT Autostick Shift
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mbrodie72 wrote:
wanted to ad. VW wasn't the only car using the saxomat system. I know Saab used used during the same time period maybe check out some of the forums. Fiat also used it and did several other cars of the time period. who knows you might get lucky.

I need to poke around a bit more. so far anything ive found for the saxomat on other cars, the only 2 parts in common are the vacuum servo and the electromagnetic vacuum valve, which coincidently is the only parts that are in common with an autostick. i can find nothing clutch related. I did find a NOS gearshift clutch disc, but still looking for the sintered bronze starting disc. if I cant find it, ill have to have it redone. Ive found 4 drag car racing places that sell this type of clutch and Ive put inquiries into having mine refurbished, wether or not i can get them to do this service only time will tell.
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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"


Last edited by GüteAndTite on Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mbrodie72
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Keep up the good work. I hope it all works out for you. Anything is possible with enough MONEY LOL. I do hope you get it on the road. I'm sorry I was not more help with specs on the clutch. I read through my bentley and they weren't listed Sad
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RareAir wrote:
guteandtite wrote:

Do you have a saxomat car or know someone with one? if so Id love pics!



There was a Black '60 sedan here locally in San Diego that is equipped with the Saxomat transmission. It was part of an auto collection in the early '80s owned by Carl "Peanut" Belcher.

The car was sold to Ross Metcalfe, a teacher at Patrick Henry High School in the mid-late '80s. The car had WhiteWall tires & a matching single wheel trailer. It was the first VW that I actually admired because of it's vintage look.

It then went on the be featured in the Flat 4 Vintage VW book in the early 90s


do you have a copy of this book ? could you post the couple of pages up here of that car?
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


im not sure? does it have the afformentioned "60" or 61 saxomat car in it?

all i could find for sale online is this: http://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Volkswagens-Flat-4-Project/dp/0811825450
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, I waded through about 100 entries with that cover before I found a match of the book I remembered from 25 years ago. All I remember was it had a lot of nice photos of old VWs but I don't think it had much in the way of technical photos. Back then I had zero knowledge of what a Saxomat was..., so even if there was one I had no idea what I was looking at.

Incidently, Progressive Refinements states that the first Saxomat was Aug 1 1960, that would have to be a 1961 model, unless there were unofficial versions before that.
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
I know, I waded through about 100 entries with that cover before I found a match of the book I remembered from 25 years ago. All I remember was it had a lot of nice photos of old VWs but I don't think it had much in the way of technical photos. Back then I had zero knowledge of what a Saxomat was..., so even if there was one I had no idea what I was looking at.

Incidently, Progressive Refinements states that the first Saxomat was Aug 1 1960, that would have to be a 1961 model, unless there were unofficial versions before that.
are the two book covers above the same book? Just the cover was freshened up with a newer printing?
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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have figured out there are a few variations or versions of the saxomat system. I happen to have the 1st version as all of my parts are dated 10.60, which is just 2 months into production.

1st version is

AUG 1 1960 to DEC 1962 to Chassis # 5218324
this early version had the vacuum servo pulling down, with a 2 piece arm that was adjustable midpoint. the vaccuum tank was mounted in the engine compartment and was egg shaped and the vacuum solenoid valve was 6v

2nd version is

DEC 1962 From Chassis # 5218325 to JULY 31 1966
this later version had the vacuum can pulling back on a 2 piece rod linkage that had ball pivots on the ends and a center lever connecting them. this allowed the special saxomat throw out arm that was horizontal to be dropped and it was replaced with the standard vertical throw out arm. this made the adjustment just like a standard clutch cable. the vacuum tank was moved under the parcel tray and was larger- it was flat and rectangular. the shifter ground wire was moved to the side instead of the rear of the shifter and the vacuum solenoid valve was still 6v

AUG 1 1966 to JULY 31 1967 only changing in that it was 12V for the
vacuum solenoid valve.

JULY 31 1967 Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Production stopped
AUG 1 1967 Automatic Stick transmission production commenced.
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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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DrakeB
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure that this can be of any help to you in trying to locate a new clutch disk, but there are companies that rebuild clutch disks for antique tractors and cars. It may take a while to find one, but at least your clutch would be somewhat original. I know of one company locally that does this sort of work.
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrakeB wrote:
I am not sure that this can be of any help to you in trying to locate a new clutch disk, but there are companies that rebuild clutch disks for antique tractors and cars. It may take a while to find one, but at least your clutch would be somewhat original. I know of one company locally that does this sort of work.


Please post their info here, Im still trying to find someone who can refurbish mine to like new condition! that info would be great!
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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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DrakeB
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the numbers that I have for the H & S Clutch Company.

2909 E Oakland Ave
Johnson City, TN 37601

(423) 282-2084
(423) 282-1141
(800) 366-0629

I don't know what their hours are off the top of my head, but I would assume that they would be open during the week.

Best of luck!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's the book I have in my library. Look for a Black '60. Several pages of photos of it
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's the book I have in my library. Look for a Black '60. Several pages of photos of it
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1947 Typ 11a
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1956 Typ 151
1959 Typ 117
1959 Typ 265
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RareAir wrote:
glutamodo wrote:
Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's the book I have in my library. Look for a Black '60. Several pages of photos of it


any way you could scan those pages Glenn? whats the ISBN # for that book?

guteandtite wrote:
glutamodo wrote:
Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


im not sure? does it have the afformentioned "60" or 61 saxomat car in it?

all i could find for sale online is this: http://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Volkswagens-Flat-4-Project/dp/0811825450
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


are these the same book? both by Flat four. I cant find the older one on Amazon, just the newer looking cover.
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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guteandtite wrote:
RareAir wrote:
glutamodo wrote:
Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's the book I have in my library. Look for a Black '60. Several pages of photos of it


any way you could scan those pages Glenn? whats the ISBN # for that book?

guteandtite wrote:
glutamodo wrote:
Are you talking about this book from Flat-4? It's older than "early 90s" - I know a good friend of mine's father had a copy in 1987-88 or so.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


im not sure? does it have the afformentioned "60" or 61 saxomat car in it?

all i could find for sale online is this: http://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Volkswagens-Flat-4-Project/dp/0811825450
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


are these the same book? both by Flat four. I cant find the older one on Amazon, just the newer looking cover.


BUMP- any ideas about the above book covers being the same book or different?
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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Durby wrote:
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ohhhh, nice! post up more pics of your car! tell me more about it!
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Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning

PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse"
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Durby
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ciao guteandtite,
well... my Beetle (and future Herbie) born in november 1962 (my '63) and lived in Ennepetal (Germany) till last febraury, when I bought him and brought him to Italy.

The first owner was an old man who had no driving license; so the car in 1989 had only 28.000 km. As he had no drivind license, he used the Beetle just in the streets of his town (Ennepetal) and only a few days during a year.
In the late 90s, when the first owner died, the car was bought by the second owner, the guy who sold me it a few months ago.

Now the car has about 78.000 km.
What about the Saxomat? It loses oil Laughing
Some days it works well, some days it works worse.
This winter we will remove engine and clutch and we will try to understand which is the problem.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

those two books are indeed the same. I saw the black beetle with the Saxomat system in color and it was labeled as having an "experimental automatic transmission from 61'". Cool book to have.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the later system that I am retro fitting into my 56. I am having a hell of a job fitting the vacuum tank in between the rear parcel shelf and the gear box (trans). Does anyone know if the area between the trans and parcel shelf got larger for the 63 model? It's very nearly there, but not quite. It seems to be fouling on the strengthening ribs on the underside of the shelf so it seems I may need to gring them back or fit the tank on top of the shelf behind the rear seats - has anyone else tried this? I don't have any pictures right now - I'll try to get some this weekend...

Cheers,

Dave
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