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A new faster way to PAINT?
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lyrikz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
lyrikz wrote:
craigman wrote:
One thing i would worry about is fading. I doubt sealer has any UV protection at all. Don't think the pigments will hold up to sunlight. It will probably turn a milky black color.


Uhm, the uv protection in the clear should take care of those worries. I could be wrong. But im not. lol.


Actually, you are wrong.


So clear has no UV protection is what your saying???

No, you are wrong. Every car out there the clear would deteriorate horribly. Think about it or just call a paint shop.
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craigman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what your saying is, if it's clear coated paint, or whatever will never fade huh? Then why does paint fade? I'd sure like to know.
And yes, after a while clear does deteriorate. You must not have ever seen any of the GM cars or Chrystler cars.
Clear does help with UV protect. Some clears better than other.
Most, if not all, undercoats, primers, sealers, ect., do not have any UV protection. So putting a clear over will only help slow it.
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lyrikz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
So what your saying is, if it's clear coated paint, or whatever will never fade huh? Then why does paint fade? I'd sure like to know.
And yes, after a while clear does deteriorate. You must not have ever seen any of the GM cars or Chrystler cars.
Clear does help with UV protect. Some clears better than other.
Most, if not all, undercoats, primers, sealers, ect., do not have any UV protection. So putting a clear over will only help slow it.


What are you talking about?? Im talking about a basecoat and a clearcoat paint job. Are you talking about a 1 stage paint??

He wanted to know if you could clear over the top of epoxy. I said yes you can there is a UV protectant in the clear. Older paint jobs were 1 stage paints. He is talking about a basecoat clear coat job.

I dont know your experience in painting, mine is strickly basecoat/clearcoat jobs. I have never ever seen a BC/CC paint job dull. The clear goat gets scratched and can polish out very easy, the basecoat doesnt fade. I used to detail for 13 years also, so i i have seen way more paint jobs then i would like to remember.

I think we are talking about 2 different type of paint steps.. If he clears over that epoxy with a good clear, it wont change.
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craigman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was assuming we were talking about epoxy primers, sealers.
The poster was talking about spraying down some epoxy, and eliminating basecoat, and going over the epoxy primer/sealer with clear.
Did i read it wrong?
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lyrikz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
I was assuming we were talking about epoxy primers, sealers.
The poster was talking about spraying down some epoxy, and eliminating basecoat, and going over the epoxy primer/sealer with clear.
Did i read it wrong?


Oh, no we are on the right topic. The clear coat protects the base coat. Doesnt matter what the basecoat it. To an extent. The uv protection is in the clear. Im sure there is SOME in the base, im not sure about that..

If you have seen bc/cc paint jobs fade, they werent done right.
I have two sections of my truck that are just bare metal with clear coat over them and epoxy primer with clear coat. Zero fading 4 years later. Zero color change.
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craigman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you know it hasn't faded? Have you covered one section for that time and then uncovered it and compared it to the other?
And if you think clear will prevent any fading of any color, you are nutz.. Rolling Eyes
Believe me, i'm no bewbie at this auto body stuff. I have sprayed in just about every type of booth there is. From garage booths to $200K SprayBakes's. And have sprayed just about every type and brand of paint there is.
I have also been involved with shops to help them figure out why they are having paint problems. Have done testing in shops for compressor air quality and contaminations.
So i've pretty much been there, done that..
So there is no way in the world your going to convince me that just because something has a clear coat over it will never fade. That's just rediculous..
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lyrikz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
How do you know it hasn't faded? Have you covered one section for that time and then uncovered it and compared it to the other?
And if you think clear will prevent any fading of any color, you are nutz.. Rolling Eyes
Believe me, i'm no bewbie at this auto body stuff. I have sprayed in just about every type of booth there is. From garage booths to $200K SprayBakes's. And have sprayed just about every type and brand of paint there is.
I have also been involved with shops to help them figure out why they are having paint problems. Have done testing in shops for compressor air quality and contaminations.
So i've pretty much been there, done that..
So there is no way in the world your going to convince me that just because something has a clear coat over it will never fade. That's just rediculous..


Oh man, that had me lol'n out loud at work. i hope your not a bewbie.

Yes, i have a section of the truck RIGHT next to a panel with house of kolor black and there is no difference. Thats only 4 years.. it could get worse fast, but i doubt it.

You do have more experience then me. Thats for sure. All my painting has been done over bc/cc. All of my stuff is less then 10 years old also. I will have to agree with you that there is going to be some fading.

Im trying to say, he wont experience more fading with clearing over the epoxy. If anythign, he should see less fade being the epoxy is more durable then the basecoat..

I was thinking about the fading, and i did a red car. IM sure if i went and painted a panel on it next to an old panel, even though they are SUPER shiny, one will be a brighter red for sure...

SO conclusion. BC/CC do fade, but my stance is epoxy wont fade any faster then a standard BC.
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schell '59
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...just because some one was brave enough to epoxy then clear it,doesnt mean its the real deal over ttime..

heres a thought,how about contacting the product tech line and seeing if this is 100% possible to the extent of time?....i can tell you this:

so say a customer comes in...says he "heard" on the internet that you can clear over epoxy and it works..then i do it for him...then 4-8 months later after he leaves the pos out side and doesn't take care of it,and the s--t peels off,or turns yellow from the epoxy hardener after time...or how about the sun bleaching the epoxy through the clear and causing it to yellow out or spot?..

yeah i'll be redoing that job for an easy grand and change.

dude..just buy black and clear it with matt clear or regular clear it's the same g-damn price and it's a lock!


people and there trying to find a cheaper,easier way to get around s--t...it's only going to bite you in the a-- in the long run...if this wasn't the deal ,everyone would be brush painting their s--t and buffing it.


just like the 30's.
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lyrikz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

schell '59 wrote:
...just because some one was brave enough to epoxy then clear it,doesnt mean its the real deal over ttime..

heres a thought,how about contacting the product tech line and seeing if this is 100% possible to the extent of time?....i can tell you this:

so say a customer comes in...says he "heard" on the internet that you can clear over epoxy and it works..then i do it for him...then 4-8 months later after he leaves the pos out side and doesn't take care of it,and the s--t peels off,or turns yellow from the epoxy hardener after time...or how about the sun bleaching the epoxy through the clear and causing it to yellow out or spot?..

yeah i'll be redoing that job for an easy grand and change.

dude..just buy black and clear it with matt clear or regular clear it's the same g-damn price and it's a lock!


people and there trying to find a cheaper,easier way to get around s--t...it's only going to bite you in the a-- in the long run...if this wasn't the deal ,everyone would be brush painting their s--t and buffing it.


just like the 30's.


Oh, dont get me wrong, i agree thats the way to go. Im just saying he should be fine. I got 4 years on mine and no issues. BUt like you said, next month it could flake off.
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schell '59
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....yeah that's my point thats all, in a business owner kinda thing...but if she were mine....what does it matter?

i would just redo it anyways!!!!

but on a serious note,i just can't see gambling with products these days with thing being so stinkin expensive!!!!
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