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Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: 1982 Diesel Vanagon Radiator and Cooling Upgrade |
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I am presently bringing back on the road an 1982 Vanagon Diesel.
The existing cooling system is original and in need of replacement.
From the information gathered here I have a list of what I want to do:
-replace front diesel rad with a later model wbx radiator (new front hose too)
-replace rusty front to rear coolant hoses with plastic hoses from an 86 wbx
-replace engine hoses with the silicone greaseworks set
-replace coolant tank from an 84 - 85 wbx
-replace waterpump and thermostat
Is there anything that I'm missing in regards to engine cooling and will all this work together?
Cheers,
Gruppe B |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Diesel Vanagon Radiator and Cooling Upgrade |
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You also need the 83+ metal fan shroud, for the small motor fan you have is ok. (the even later bigger fan motor needs special wiring and a matching shroud) You need the 3 wire connector for the later rad temp switch. You need the 3 pin rad temp switch, best to use the one for 86+ , stock setting. Then you need to extend the old temp switch wiring and splice in the 3 wire connector. You will need to do something to hold the top of the radiator firmly in position. The plastic long pipes are bigger diameter so all hoses that attach to the pipes need to have the bigger ends for them.
Mark
Gruppe B wrote: |
I am presently bringing back on the road an 1982 Vanagon Diesel.
The existing cooling system is original and in need of replacement.
From the information gathered here I have a list of what I want to do:
-replace front diesel rad with a later model wbx radiator (new front hose too)
-replace rusty front to rear coolant hoses with plastic hoses from an 86 wbx
-replace engine hoses with the silicone greaseworks set
-replace coolant tank from an 84 - 85 wbx
-replace waterpump and thermostat
Is there anything that I'm missing in regards to engine cooling and will all this work together?
Cheers,
Gruppe B |
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POS Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2004 Posts: 285 Location: In a bus, down by the river in Boonville MO
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: rad upgrade |
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Both upper and lower brackets are different for the later radiator. I cut out the upper off a junked vanagon and welding it in place of the original. The lower just unbolt.
Also there are two temp sensors on the 82 and only one on the later.
That's what I remember...
Peace
David
http://wristtwists.com/wristtwists/Welcome.html |
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POS Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2004 Posts: 285 Location: In a bus, down by the river in Boonville MO
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WAgrower Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2011 Posts: 182 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to hear another Diesel is making its way back to the road!!
Agree with all the changes; I have a new aluminum radiator and the plastic pipes which make a world of difference alone. The fan shroud and mounting depend on what you get; mine is from a audi and mounted nicely with little fabrication needed. It has an aftermarket thin fan on it so no issues there. Unfortunately the plastic pipes can be hard to find and expensive when you do.
I'd also get a new coolant reservoir and cap; not that expensive and you know the cap is good. Also check the thermostat in boiling water before you install it, I had one bad in the box a couple of weeks ago and couldn't bleed the system; took me hours to figure out it was a bum thermostat.
I'd also replace the heater control valve while you have the system apart, and have a good look over temp senders and replace if they look too crusty.
Your front heater core also has a set of tubes that may need replacing too.
Those hose sets look mighty nice but at $400 they are towards the bottom of my list:(
Best of luck with the restore! |
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Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Gahh!
I didn't know that the shroud and fan was different too. I had that part but hauled it away with a bunch of scrap metal a few months ago.
Time to start looking for another...
Good call on the temp sensors as well, I'll add them to the list.
I have already started on the heat exchanger in the dash and replaced the heater valve so those things should be ok. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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The 82 fan/motor works with the metal shrouds from 83-85 so find that and use your same fan. That same shroud was also used in some 86+ 2wd but only when no factory A/C.
Mark
Gruppe B wrote: |
Gahh!
I didn't know that the shroud and fan was different too. I had that part but hauled it away with a bunch of scrap metal a few months ago.
Time to start looking for another...
Good call on the temp sensors as well, I'll add them to the list.
I have already started on the heat exchanger in the dash and replaced the heater valve so those things should be ok. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2013 Posts: 114 Location: INDEPENDENCE, MO 64057
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject: 83 VW VANAGON EARLY COOLING SYSTEM |
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I WAS ABLE TO JUMPER THE RED LEAD FROM THE ac SWITCH ON THE RADIATOR. THE RED ONE AT TNE LEFT EDGE OF THE CONTACT. TO THE CENTER PART OF THE 3 PART SWITCH. THE FAN KICKED ON, THEN. NOW THE POWER IS NOT TO THE SWITCH, NO FAN, I HAVE NOT CHECKED THE GROUND. I HAVE A HUNCH THAT THERE IS A BLOWN FUZE? iS THERE AN INLINE FUSE? I GOT OTHER QUESTIONS, TOO. I CHECKED OUT THE WESTY SITE ABOUT HOW THE COOLING SYSTEM WORKS? I THINK THERE IS A LOT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT. |
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rotaecho Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012 Posts: 513 Location: Nomadic Vanlifer
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:23 am Post subject: |
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I went ahead and did my radiator upgrade this weekend on my 82 diesel. Everything wen't well except for the 3 wire connector for the rad temp switch. I have the two red/black (or dark blue color blind to tell), and the two smaller wires. How does one connect those up to the temp switch? I could splice and use the female connectors.
I forgot to pick that up, and did the radiator replacement already :/
What would be the part/number for this pigtail? Or is it possible to just create this via another method?
Thanks! _________________ -Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 16972 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Will, the temp switch harness with the small gauge wires is for the high speed fan. They control a relay inside the van. The larger gauge wires are for the low speed. You will use 3 of those for wires with the 3 blade dual speed switch. Looking at the switch the outer two spades I recall are low speed, the middle spade is high. So you need power to the switch and then identify which one you need to energize the relay for high speed and connect that to the center spade. I could also be completely wrong and you should verify the wiring in the Bentley manual. Because you are switching power, I don't believe you can hurt anything if you get it wrong while figuring it out. Obviously if you don't get the fan working and drive the van, it will overheat. That would not be good. I am not aware of an adapter. _________________ ☮️ |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: |
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You gat it all done and all went well;
How did you get the plastic pipes through the center crossmember, and how did you get the gas pipes to line up where the oil burner pipes attached at the engine bulkhead--
The plastic pipes are 1.50" in diameter, the 82 oil burner's are 1.25".
Won't fit through the crossmember along with the heater hoses without hogging it out--won't fit.
Two totally different animals with two distinct configurations which do not , or are not anywhere near the same-- _________________ T.K.
Last edited by Terry Kay on Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2310 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: |
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rsxsr wrote: |
Obviously if you don't get the fan working and drive the van, it will overheat. |
Not true. Under all normal driving circumstances you are OK. The only time your radiator fan will ever need to kick on is long periods of idling on a hot day, or grinding up a mountain in summer weather.
The 1.6 produces so little power, and therefore so little heat, that the fan rarely needs to come on. Especially with an upgraded radiator. That gives you a good lot of time to get the fan wired up.
I drove my Vanagon for about 6 years and forgot the fan even existed, because it never came on. Then one summer day while driving up Monarch pass in Colorado real slow, the fan kicked on. I thought it was a helicopter! Pretty funny. _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 16972 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Gnarlodious wrote: |
rsxsr wrote: |
Obviously if you don't get the fan working and drive the van, it will overheat. |
Not true. Under all normal driving circumstances you are OK. The only time your radiator fan will ever need to kick on is long periods of idling on a hot day, or grinding up a mountain in summer weather.
The 1.6 produces so little power, and therefore so little heat, that the fan rarely needs to come on. Especially with an upgraded radiator. That gives you a good lot of time to get the fan wired up.
I drove my Vanagon for about 6 years and forgot the fan even existed, because it never came on. Then one summer day while driving up Monarch pass in Colorado real slow, the fan kicked on. I thought it was a helicopter! Pretty funny. |
You missed my point. I would ensure the radiator fan is cycling properly after doing all this work. Based on your logic, he could leave it disconnected, which is not quite what the engineers envisioned. I was letting the member know that he would most likely not damage the electrical components while testing the correct pin location.
From memory the pins on the switch are number 1, 2, and 3. 1 would be power in. I believe 3 is low and 2 is high. I have done the same modification, but can't quite remember the pin location. That is why I suggested looking at the wiring diagram. _________________ ☮️ |
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rotaecho Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012 Posts: 513 Location: Nomadic Vanlifer
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Terry,
This was an 82' diesel, which had the steel pipes. I just cut them out since they were bent in places, patched with external rubber hoses in others, and crumbling in other aspects.
I had to widen the cross-member holes a bit as after a few hours of trying to make it through the original slot with the gas-tank loose, it was to not happening for me and my friend who was helping.
Terry Kay wrote: |
You gat it all done and all went well;
How did you get the plastic pipes through the center crossmember, and how did you get the gas pipes to line up where the oil burner pipes attached at the engine bulkhead--
The plastic pipes are 1.50" in diameter, the 82 oil burner's are 1.25".
Won't fit through the crossmember along with the heater hoses without hogging it out--won't fit.
Two totally different animals with two distinct configurations which do not , or are not anywhere near the same-- |
_________________ -Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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rotaecho Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012 Posts: 513 Location: Nomadic Vanlifer
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Rsxsr,
Thanks for the insight. I have the switch mounted to the radiator, so I guess I just need to figure how to determine which prong on the fan switch is 1,2,3. Since, I installed by screwing it in, it's rotated a bit so I would need to inspect it more to determine prong 1,2,3.
I also wasn't sure should one use plumbers tape on the threads when installing the radiator to the switch into the radiator? Or was that a bad idea?
Thanks everyone!
rsxsr wrote: |
Will, the temp switch harness with the small gauge wires is for the high speed fan. They control a relay inside the van. The larger gauge wires are for the low speed. You will use 3 of those for wires with the 3 blade dual speed switch. Looking at the switch the outer two spades I recall are low speed, the middle spade is high. So you need power to the switch and then identify which one you need to energize the relay for high speed and connect that to the center spade. I could also be completely wrong and you should verify the wiring in the Bentley manual. Because you are switching power, I don't believe you can hurt anything if you get it wrong while figuring it out. Obviously if you don't get the fan working and drive the van, it will overheat. That would not be good. I am not aware of an adapter. |
_________________ -Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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rotaecho Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012 Posts: 513 Location: Nomadic Vanlifer
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Of the four wires on the 82'
The two larger and the two smaller pairs.
I was able to get a 12v reading on one of the smaller wires.
I got a low (barely readable) voltage on one of the larger wires. Is this normal behavior? Or should this also read around 12v?
Thanks! _________________ -Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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If you touch the ends of the 2 larger wires together the fan should run on low speed. Touch the smaller wires together and it should run on high speed.
The OEM quality rad temp switch has the 3 terminals labeled on the switch if you look very close at the pin area.
Mark
rotaecho wrote: |
Of the four wires on the 82'
The two larger and the two smaller pairs.
I was able to get a 12v reading on one of the smaller wires.
I got a low (barely readable) voltage on one of the larger wires. Is this normal behavior? Or should this also read around 12v?
Thanks! |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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<<I had to widen the cross-member holes a bit as after a few hours of trying to make it through the original slot with the gas-tank loose, it was to not happening for me and my friend who was helping. >>
I know the original pipes are steel, I do know that the plastic pipes are bigger OD, I do know that you would have to hack open the crossmember
to fit, but the gas pipes ( post 85.5) are nowhere near the same configuration as the 82 diesel pipes.
How'd you get the outside pipe to kick up as the stock one does?
It's a mile away from even being close--
Only the inside pipe will go to the firewall close enough to fit. _________________ T.K. |
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rotaecho Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012 Posts: 513 Location: Nomadic Vanlifer
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Mark,
I have verified that connecting the large two wires together starts the low setting on the fan.
I have also verified that connecting the smaller wires fires off the high setting of the fan.
I’ve looked at page 97.82 track 137-138 of the Bentley to get an idea, but it really doesn’t indicate the pin location to me either.
Just to be clear that I understand what peopler stating is that the hot (live wire) of the smaller relay wire should be on the center switch pin. The non-live wire of the smaller pair is tapped up and tucked aside.
The two larger wires, of one being a hot (live wire) should be placed on the outer pins.
From the outside of the fan switch that you connect into I’m not seeing an indication that shows a labeled pin 1-3 on the fan switch. However, if it’s small enough I may not be able to see it. Here’s what it looks like in-case it jogs someone’s memory seeing how it’s positioned.
Meyle 1009598717
Just making sure I’m on the right page / before plugging in and buttoning it all up.
Thanks everyone!
crazyvwvanman wrote: |
If you touch the ends of the 2 larger wires together the fan should run on low speed. Touch the smaller wires together and it should run on high speed.
The OEM quality rad temp switch has the 3 terminals labeled on the switch if you look very close at the pin area.
Mark
rotaecho wrote: |
Of the four wires on the 82'
The two larger and the two smaller pairs.
I was able to get a 12v reading on one of the smaller wires.
I got a low (barely readable) voltage on one of the larger wires. Is this normal behavior? Or should this also read around 12v?
Thanks! |
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_________________ -Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
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No, that is wrong. The small hot wire is the wire not used anymore.
Mark
rotaecho wrote: |
.....
Just to be clear that I understand what peopler stating is that the hot (live wire) of the smaller relay wire should be on the center switch pin. The non-live wire of the smaller pair is tapped up and tucked aside.... |
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