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airforceSF
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Great falls, Montana
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 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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EGR light won't come on when starting bus. Bulb is good and so are connections. So what's the deal? What's the EGR for anyways?????? I have a 77 with 2.0.
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341 MSFS Malmstrom |
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BayCreamPuff
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015
Posts: 769
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| airforceSF wrote: |
| EGR light won't come on when starting bus. Bulb is good and so are connections. So what's the deal? What's the EGR for anyways?????? I have a 77 with 2.0. |
Here's your owner's manual
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/77bus.php
_________________
Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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 from the speed-o head to the inside valance behind the kick panel there is a box with the speedo cable #2 goes to the front wheel. it is a counter that triggers the EGR light and can be turned off at the box by pushing the white plastic button-- mostly it was a sales tool to get the customer to the shop by scaring the BEE jEEsus out of them --- it really does nothing besides that. somebody probably disabled it so it wouldn't scare them to death.
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| williamM wrote: |
| from the speed-o head to the inside valance behind the kick panel there is a box with the speedo cable #2 goes to the front wheel. it is a counter that triggers the EGR light and can be turned off at the box by pushing the white plastic button-- mostly it was a sales tool to get the customer to the shop by scaring the BEE jEEsus out of them --- it really does nothing besides that. somebody probably disabled it so it wouldn't scare them to death. |
Agreed, having one of these things come on on a dark rain night in heavy traffic will scare the crap out of you. I would not knowing drive with one of these warning systems still working. Clip the wires off and eliminate a serious safely hazard. |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:27 am Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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On my 74 Westfalia, the fuel gauge on the back of the dash cluster, black wire powers up the board, with 1 black wire going to the vibrator, while the red jumper wire goes from vibrator to fuel gauge. On the opposing end of the fuel gauge, is a ground wire, correct?
I have a ground there now, and when turned on the gauge pings to past full??? What's up? I initially had a brown/white dash wire there and when turned on it stand at empty. Wiring diagram only shows one brown/white dash wire going to the hazard switch which is in place.
Anyone know of the brown/white dash wire, and why fuel gauge isn't reading?? Just replaced fuel gauge in the dash, sender is getting power.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
On my 74 Westfalia, the fuel gauge on the back of the dash cluster, black wire powers up the board, with 1 black wire going to the vibrator, while the red jumper wire goes from vibrator to fuel gauge. On the opposing end of the fuel gauge, is a ground wire, correct?
I have a ground there now, and when turned on the gauge pings to past full??? What's up? I initially had a brown/white dash wire there and when turned on it stand at empty. Wiring diagram only shows one brown/white dash wire going to the hazard switch which is in place.
Anyone know of the brown/white dash wire, and why fuel gauge isn't reading?? Just replaced fuel gauge in the dash, sender is getting power. |
That G terminal isn't a body ground, it's a variable ground provided by the sender. Find all the brown wires in the harness coming from the back of the bus below the fuse box, one has a white tracer and is for the booster fan, the other brown one is for the gauge, it may have a white tracer, maybe black and sometimes no tracer at all.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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Learn to use the current track style drawings for trouble shooting. This one is for '73-74 so will work for your year. The fuel gauge, sender, and vibrator are all in current track #40.
Double click to enlarge:
The current flow goes this way:
-battery
-ignition switch
-Fuse #11
-vibrator
-gauge
-sender
-ground |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
That G terminal isn't a body ground, it's a variable ground provided by the sender. Find all the brown wires in the harness coming from the back of the bus below the fuse box, one has a white tracer and is for the booster fan, the other brown one is for the gauge, it may have a white tracer, maybe black and sometimes no tracer at all. |
So I’ve located my variable ground for the sender, on my 74 Westy being a brown wire with a white dash. Now when I have everything hooked up, correctly, I am only getting a full reading (actually past full). Now when I apply the test light to the gauge, grounded to the body, it causes the gauge it actually read correctly, currently just below 3/4 of a tank. How do I achieve getting this thing to work correctly? I do not want to drop the motor to get to the sender, but apparently I have a ground issue either at the gauge or the sender itself, no??
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
That G terminal isn't a body ground, it's a variable ground provided by the sender. Find all the brown wires in the harness coming from the back of the bus below the fuse box, one has a white tracer and is for the booster fan, the other brown one is for the gauge, it may have a white tracer, maybe black and sometimes no tracer at all. |
So I’ve located my variable ground for the sender, on my 74 Westy being a brown wire with a white dash. Now when I have everything hooked up, correctly, I am only getting a full reading (actually past full). Now when I apply the test light to the gauge, grounded to the body, it causes the gauge it actually read correctly, currently just below 3/4 of a tank. How do I achieve getting this thing to work correctly? I do not want to drop the motor to get to the sender, but apparently I have a ground issue either at the gauge or the sender itself, no?? |
I'd start by reading some of these: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
So I’ve located my variable ground for the sender, on my 74 Westy being a brown wire with a white dash. Now when I have everything hooked up, correctly, I am only getting a full reading (actually past full). Now when I apply the test light to the gauge, grounded to the body, it causes the gauge it actually read correctly, currently just below 3/4 of a tank. How do I achieve getting this thing to work correctly? I do not want to drop the motor to get to the sender, but apparently I have a ground issue either at the gauge or the sender itself, no?? |
What is the history of this vehicle?
Senders fail after long periods of unuse. Perhaps built up varnish in the tank. If the tank needs cleaned, likely you just have to pull it.
Sounds like you have a bad sender in the tank, or possibly the ground wire is not hooked up. The sender ground wire comes out under the cover and fastens with a sheet metal screw to the firewall somewhere, I think over towards the air cleaner mount.
If you end up replacing the sender, you have to decide whether to cut an access hole or remove the tank.
Removing the tank is not easy. Usually easier if the engine is out, but it can be made to clear by lowering the engine. (But getting the tank strap bolts off and on is very difficult.) Much easier without the engine in there and you can just sit there with both parts of the strap right in front of you.
NEXT TIME YOU LEAVE IT SITTING FOR 6 MONTHS OR MORE, PUT STABIL IN THE GAS!
(As if anybody ever really thinks of Stabil by then. Best intentions...)
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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Al,
Bus sat for for 27 years. When I pulled the motor, I removed tank as well. Cleaned thoroughly and recoated it with ethanol-approved material.
Sender was rusty, but with guidance from a rebuild/refurb job here on the Samba, I got it working quite nicely. All was well until I pulled the under dash AC unit about 3 months ago. It quit working then.
About 3 weeks ago, I removed the firewall while everything was in place (a freaking chore!) and with testing noted that the ground was clean and power was being received to the sender.
The test light temp ground shows an accurate reading of the fuel level inside the tank, but without it, the gauge pings past full. Everything is visibly connected correctly to the dash cluster. Same with sender. Idk what gives, I really really want the Gauge to work but I'm neither cutting a hole or dropping a motor anytime soon, I'll keep counting mileage.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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Yes, I hear that!
Cutting a hole would make the most sense, knowing that the tank was clean at this point. Not so much sense to cut a hole if the tank needs cleaned anyway! (BTW, in recent ads I have noticed Brazilian bays HAVE a permanent access hole from new!)
UNDER DASH AIR? That's kinda rare. Yes, Usually when it doesn't work it's the last thing fixed that triggered the failure.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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eche_bus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2007
Posts: 1318
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
So I’ve located my variable ground for the sender, on my 74 Westy being a brown wire with a white dash. Now when I have everything hooked up, correctly, I am only getting a full reading (actually past full). Now when I apply the test light to the gauge, grounded to the body, it causes the gauge it actually read correctly, currently just below 3/4 of a tank. How do I achieve getting this thing to work correctly? I do not want to drop the motor to get to the sender, but apparently I have a ground issue either at the gauge or the sender itself, no?? |
It is good when trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem to have both an understanding of basic electricity and of the circuit you're working with. If you study the circuit for the gauge, vibrator(regulator), and sender, you'll see this:
Battery voltage (12V) is fed to the regulator which in turn supplies one side of the gauge. The other side of the gauge connects to the sender, and the other end of the sender connects to chassis ground.
The gauge responds to current flow. More current = high reading, less current = low reading. If the ground connection at the sender is bad, you don't get a high reading, you get a low or no reading at the gauge because there'll be little or no current flow.
When you put your test light across ground and one side of the gauge and the gauge read lower, it is no great mystery as to why. You provided a parallel path for the current to flow. Some of the current flowed through the gauge, some flowed through your test light. Remember, less current through the gauge - lower reading.
To test whether the sender is the problem, simply remove the wire at the gauge that feeds the sender. Does the gauge now read empty? It should. You won't really be able to go any further without using a meter that can read ohms(resistance). You want to see what resistance there is between the wire you removed from the gauge and ground. This will normally depend on how much fuel you have in your tank. The resistance varies from 10 ohms or so completely full to 22 ohms for 1/2 tank to 47 ohms at about 1/4 full. If you read much lower than 10 ohms, it's more likely than not that you have a short to ground. With the sender removed from the circuit, you can test the meter and regulator by connecting resistors with these values between the gauge and ground.
You can find some good troubleshooting details here:
http://www.type2.com/library/misc/vwggauge.htm |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| 69doublecab wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
Much easier if you have a spare ignition switch in the glove box. Just plug the spare switch into the harness, use just about any key to turn it, and drive off. Yes, do remember to unlock the steering, as it is embarrassing to run off the road.  |
Yeah, the switches are so expensive! I did not have to drive that far to realize the steering wheel was locked. Kinda like finding yourself in handcuffs. Not good.
Al |
I had a great time when I found myself in handcuffs on my Z bed in my Ford.
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airforceSF
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Great falls, Montana
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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What engine is bigger than the type 4? I just want more horse power without doing a crazy Subaru swap. I have a 77 bay.
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341 MSFS Malmstrom |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| airforceSF wrote: |
| What engine is bigger than the type 4? I just want more horse power without doing a crazy Subaru swap. I have a 77 bay. |
Research Camper Special and Oxyboxer. |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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| eche_bus wrote: |
It is good when trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem to have both an understanding of basic electricity and of the circuit you're working with. If you study the circuit for the gauge, vibrator(regulator), and sender, you'll see this:
Battery voltage (12V) is fed to the regulator which in turn supplies one side of the gauge. The other side of the gauge connects to the sender, and the other end of the sender connects to chassis ground.
The gauge responds to current flow. More current = high reading, less current = low reading. If the ground connection at the sender is bad, you don't get a high reading, you get a low or no reading at the gauge because there'll be little or no current flow.
When you put your test light across ground and one side of the gauge and the gauge read lower, it is no great mystery as to why. You provided a parallel path for the current to flow. Some of the current flowed through the gauge, some flowed through your test light. Remember, less current through the gauge - lower reading.
To test whether the sender is the problem, simply remove the wire at the gauge that feeds the sender. Does the gauge now read empty? It should. You won't really be able to go any further without using a meter that can read ohms(resistance). You want to see what resistance there is between the wire you removed from the gauge and ground. This will normally depend on how much fuel you have in your tank. The resistance varies from 10 ohms or so completely full to 22 ohms for 1/2 tank to 47 ohms at about 1/4 full. If you read much lower than 10 ohms, it's more likely than not that you have a short to ground. With the sender removed from the circuit, you can test the meter and regulator by connecting resistors with these values between the gauge and ground.
You can find some good troubleshooting details here:
http://www.type2.com/library/misc/vwggauge.htm |
Thanks for the clarity Echo, I will keep you all posted. I do know that with the ground wire off, it does indeed read empty, the sender is "sending" but somethings off.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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Hikelite
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012
Posts: 557
Location: Colville, WA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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oil bath question...
I'm not concerned about correct, as much as functional. I'm trying to determine what oil bath air cleaner setup I need. I have a 68, but it's no longer the SP engine. It's a DP, so I don't care if I have the '68' oil bath. From what I've learned so far, it seems that the design implemented in 72 is the best. I'm running a 34PICT4, and the air cleaner mount is still there. Since the motor is already not 68 correct, I don't care what year, as long as it is still stock for a 1600 DP.
I'm hoping to make it to Volksfest this weekend and would like to know what I should look for. Is there a certain part # or #s I should be on the look out for?
I'll need all the bits and pieces. I searched for an 'ID' pictorial, but couldn't find one. I've been able to find nice posts about the other pieces I'm after (thanks tcash), but not this one.
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~Kevin
My 1968 Campmobile |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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The ideal unit for you is for a 72-74 Ghia, it looks like a bus one but has the vacuum nipples on the top and the vacuum can on the snorkel. The 68-70 cable operated one doesn't play well with the dual port manifold. 71 will also work but the wax thermostat is often dead, there's a fix for it if you do find one.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1942506
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Hikelite
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012
Posts: 557
Location: Colville, WA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: The Stupid Question Thread |
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Thanks busdaddy
The bus one will look the same, right?
So I want vacuum nipples on top and that rubber doohickey on the bottom?
Is this a fair price? I was anticipating this being a $50-100 part at the swap meet. Am I way off base? Don't want to offend anyone. I'm just have no idea what parts should cost. My memory is from the 90's. It seems parts are harder to find and more expensive these days 
Once I find one I'll learn what the vacuum nipples are for. I found a DVDA distributor already, so hopefully these will play nice together.
If I can find the air cleaner and some OG heater boxes this weekend I'll be a very happy camper 
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~Kevin
My 1968 Campmobile |
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