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KSKI
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 332
Location: WV
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 Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: Electric interior fan |
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Stupid question that I can't find an answer to:
When did a fan become standard in bugs? |
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darg
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2014
Posts: 167
Location: VIRGINIA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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I have no idea. I did not know they did
darg |
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Luft kühl
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 1178
Location: Allentown, PA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| The fresh air fan first appeared on the 1971 models. |
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olspeed
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 489
Location: In the shadow of Denali, I still don't give a damn how they do it outside
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| Luft kühl wrote: |
| The fresh air fan first appeared on the 1971 models. |
No I had one in my 69 or I guess I should say "it had one in it when I bought it" that fan looked almost exactly like the one in my 76
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66- Ghia
76-Beetle |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| Luft kühl wrote: |
| The fresh air fan first appeared on the 1971 models. |
My 1970 was 2 years old when I bought it, no fan.
My 1971 Super Beetle was 5 years old when I bought it, had fan.
Both were completely stock.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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KSKI
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 332
Location: WV
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| if no fan in 69 how effective is the defroster and heat distribution? |
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ps2375
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2471
Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| Depends on how many leaks the system has. |
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KSKI
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 332
Location: WV
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| in other words, what forces the air into the car? the actual movement of the vehicle? |
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vectorsprint
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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Here's a great resource regarding the heating, ventilation, defrost and demisting system of the beetle:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434051
The fresh air fan just pulls air in from outside and puts it through the fresh air vents. The defroster air is pushed by the engine fan, so the volume of air is related directly to the RPM of the engine. If your heater channels are in good nick and the fan isn't clogged, some lever driving can defrost the windows in about a mile or so. |
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KSKI
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 332
Location: WV
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| thanks much vectorsprint--that was truly a classic in simplistic diagramming for a simplistic person like me! Now I know |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5994
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| KSKI wrote: |
| in other words, what forces the air into the car? the actual movement of the vehicle? |
Fan became standard in 1971 but only for Super Beetles. Regular Beetles never got a fan (at least in the U.S.).
Read that thread linked above, it's a great primer on how the system works.
Cliff's Notes version:
The system is split into what I'll call fresh air ventilation and heat/defrost. This is unlike most cars where the two systems are combined.
The fresh air system is outside ambient air only. It is not heated. The intake for this system is the cowl vents forward of the base of the windshield. As you noted, there is no fan to boost ventilation. Air is forced through the system by the movement of the car. If the car is not moving, no air is coming in. The air flows into a box in the trunk area which distributes it to the vents on the dash. There are controls on the dash which open/close the fresh air vents.
The heat/defroster system does have a fan; it's the same one that cools the engine. The engine fan takes in fresh outside air from the vents below the rear window and blows it through two hoses and through the heat exchangers under the car. The exhaust headers run through the heat exchangers and the fan air flows between the exhaust header portion and the outer skin of the heat exchanger. This is what makes the air hot. Tubes carry the hot air into the car underneath the rear seat and from there it flows out of outlets under the rear seat and into the heater channels which carry it up to the front of the car for the front footwell outlets and up some additional hoses to the defroster vents.
You have a couple levers between the seats which control the volume of heated air entering the car and also which vents the air is allowed to come out of. Naturally, since the heater fan is the engine cooling fan, the volume of air will be dependent on the engine speed. Higher rpm = more air volume, lower rpm = less air volume.
The system works quite well and gets quite hot if it is all airtight and in proper working order. Often, it is not, due to poor maintenance and ignorant PO's. But if you spend a Saturday getting the system set up properly, you can have very effective heat and defrost.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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olspeed
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 489
Location: In the shadow of Denali, I still don't give a damn how they do it outside
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
| KSKI wrote: |
| in other words, what forces the air into the car? the actual movement of the vehicle? |
Fan became standard in 1971 but only for Super Beetles. Regular Beetles never got a fan (at least in the U.S.).
Read that thread linked above, it's a great primer on how the system works.
Cliff's Notes version:
The system is split into what I'll call fresh air ventilation and heat/defrost. This is unlike most cars where the two systems are combined.
The fresh air system is outside ambient air only. It is not heated. The intake for this system is the cowl vents forward of the base of the windshield. As you noted, there is no fan to boost ventilation. Air is forced through the system by the movement of the car. If the car is not moving, no air is coming in. The air flows into a box in the trunk area which distributes it to the vents on the dash. There are controls on the dash which open/close the fresh air vents.
The heat/defroster system does have a fan; it's the same one that cools the engine. The engine fan takes in fresh outside air from the vents below the rear window and blows it through two hoses and through the heat exchangers under the car. The exhaust headers run through the heat exchangers and the fan air flows between the exhaust header portion and the outer skin of the heat exchanger. This is what makes the air hot. Tubes carry the hot air into the car underneath the rear seat and from there it flows out of outlets under the rear seat and into the heater channels which carry it up to the front of the car for the front footwell outlets and up some additional hoses to the defroster vents.
You have a couple levers between the seats which control the volume of heated air entering the car and also which vents the air is allowed to come out of. Naturally, since the heater fan is the engine cooling fan, the volume of air will be dependent on the engine speed. Higher rpm = more air volume, lower rpm = less air volume.
The system works quite well and gets quite hot if it is all airtight and in proper working order. Often, it is not, due to poor maintenance and ignorant PO's. But if you spend a Saturday getting the system set up properly, you can have very effective heat and defrost. |
No, this is not true. My 76 was purchased new through New Car Sales in Anchorage(AK VW dealer) by the original owner and I worked on this car from the time it was purchased by him. This car has a fresh air fan housing and two speed switch that is all OEM and always has. The only modification was done by me to make the gas heater run air through the box in the winter, for that I block off the vent in the hood and then open it back up in the summer for ventilation.
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5994
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| olspeed wrote: |
No, this is not true. My 76 was purchased new through New Car Sales in Anchorage(AK VW dealer) by the original owner and I worked on this car from the time it was purchased by him. This car has a fresh air fan housing and two speed switch that is all OEM and always has. The only modification was done by me to make the gas heater run air through the box in the winter, for that I block off the vent in the hood and then open it back up in the summer for ventilation. |
Hmm, maybe the standards got it in '76? I had a '75 standard that did not have a fan.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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I've found that in winter, the "VW Towel" is your best way to defrost your windows.
After the engine warms up a bit, if you put all the heat to the front window, the heating system will keep the window clear. But not on short trips where the engine heat exchangers don't get nice and toasty.
In my 1974 Super Beetle, I have side defroster vents in addition to the front-window vents that I can open and close. In the open position, the side front windows are also kept clear--after the engine is warm. If going on a short trip, the VW Towel is all that will work.
The fresh-air fan system just blows in cold outside air, and I've found that it works okay to help with defrost if the fan switch is set on low while the cold air mixes with the hot defrost air, but at the higher fan speed, it seems to defeat the purpose of the defrost system. It simply allows in too much cold, damp air.
If driving a decent commute on a cold day, I can usually put the towel aside as the defrost system finally keeps things clear.
This is even with a good, sound heating system with the thermostat and flaps.
Tim
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ps2375
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2471
Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| olspeed wrote: |
| No, this is not true. My 76 was purchased new through New Car Sales in Anchorage(AK VW dealer) by the original owner and I worked on this car from the time it was purchased by him. This car has a fresh air fan housing and two speed switch that is all OEM and always has. The only modification was done by me to make the gas heater run air through the box in the winter, for that I block off the vent in the hood and then open it back up in the summer for ventilation. |
I wouldn't consider a gas heater as standard equipment, maybe only in the Arctic is it standard. |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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Well, you never owned a 1974 Type IV Station Wagon. The heating system in those was only good on mildly cold days. If the temps got down into the 30's F in the winter, you may as well have had no heat at all. The gas heater was very necessary.
And I bet they came stock with that model.
Tim
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olspeed
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 489
Location: In the shadow of Denali, I still don't give a damn how they do it outside
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| ps2375 wrote: |
| olspeed wrote: |
| No, this is not true. My 76 was purchased new through New Car Sales in Anchorage(AK VW dealer) by the original owner and I worked on this car from the time it was purchased by him. This car has a fresh air fan housing and two speed switch that is all OEM and always has. The only modification was done by me to make the gas heater run air through the box in the winter, for that I block off the vent in the hood and then open it back up in the summer for ventilation. |
I wouldn't consider a gas heater as standard equipment, maybe only in the Arctic is it standard. |
In itself the gas heater was an addon by me also, but as I said the fresh air fan/ housing, switch and piping (except for the 2" hose from the heater to the fan box) are all OE VW
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76-Beetle |
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ps2375
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2471
Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Electric interior fan |
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| Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Well, you never owned a 1974 Type IV Station Wagon. The heating system in those was only good on mildly cold days. If the temps got down into the 30's F in the winter, you may as well have had no heat at all. The gas heater was very necessary.
And I bet they came stock with that model.
Tim |
My mother had a Squareback of about that vintage when we lived in Michigan, and I don't recall any problems with the heat on that vehicle. That was a very good car. |
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