Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
The importance of choosing the correct oil weight.
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 23, 24, 25  Next
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Performance - Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Almost Alive
Samba Member


Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: Frankfort, Illinois/New Orleans, Louisiana
Almost Alive is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: The importance of choosing the correct oil weight. Reply with quote

MODS!!! Please do not toss this in the "what oil I should use" sticky. This topic has been lost in that thread many times already and its obviously still a problem. They see the 100 pages of posts and pass. This is also not about which oil they should use, it is about the importance of choosing the proper weight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Moderator's note: If this turns into a what brand to use i'll lock it.
(i give it a day or two)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen and replied to countless posts noticing a fairly common thing. People are just completely clueless that oil weight has a huge effect on your oil pressure and temperature. Probably more of an adverse effect that having an undersized or over sized oil pump does.
Now as I've stated in a previous post, I cannot take credit for this. I read a post from John@aircooled which kicked me into gear experimenting.
I've found that depending on what you've got... case type, bearing condition, oil galley size, single relief/dual relief, doghouse/non-doghouse coolers, external coolers and oil pump size all may require different oil weights for optimal cooling efficiency.
From the amount of testing I've done I have come to these conclusions; 1) 10w30 is the most commonly used oil weight and in about half of the engines I've checked, 10w30 is the best weight for them. These cases tend to be late model dual relief cases with 15mm oil galleys and a 26mm oil pump.

2) Single relief cases, especially those with small oil galleys LOVE light oil. 0w30 or 0w20. I use 0w30 because Brad Penn makes this weight.

3) I have not found one engine that needs 20w50. People seem to come to the conclusion that heavier oil cools better which, well it might be true. I don't know, but that thick of oil causes excessive oil pressure in ACVW engines which makes the oil bypass the oil cooler. No oil cooler = hot oil. Though it may or may not cool better, it does not work well in air cooled vw engines. The only time that thick of oil should be used is if you have excessively low oil pressure as if your mains were on their last leg or your oil pump needs replaced. Using 20w50 is a band-aid, not a fix.


You need to keep in mind, this is something that needs to be experimented with. I've had engines that the overheating issue was obviously caused by the oil pressure. Even with testing different weights I didn't get them down to where they should be so testing the weights might also include changing your 21mm oil pump to a 26mm or vice versa. I know it sounds like a lot of work but on engines with NO overheating issues I have commonly dropped the oil temps 15 degrees at 65mph... this is huge. My coolest running case is... are you ready for this? A single relief H case with 10mm oil galleys, 26mm oil pump using 0w30. It used to run 230 degrees at 70/75mph and I couldn't run it for more than 10 or 15 minutes at that speed which is about normal for an ACVW but once I switched a few things around, now its running 215/220 degrees at 75/80mph and I can run it for hours at this temp. Pretty cool huh? Pun intended.

This testing is pretty straight forward. Use 10w30 as a base line and having an oil pressure gauge makes it much easier but if not you will just be dropping oil a bit more. Make sure your oil pressure stays within range. The 10lbs per 1000RPM rule is good to stick by, Performance engines can have a bit more pressure.
Before even thinking about this testing you need to be sure you have ALL OF YOUR COOLING TINS! Yes... sled tins as well. Stock VW cooling systems are cheap and cool the best without spending too much. If you have a cheapo aftermarket shroud(commonly 36hp style), ditch it. They cool terribly 90% of the time and chances are they are causing most of your issues.

I think that's about it.... John, anything to contribute?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ColtonMelson
Samba Member


Joined: May 31, 2011
Posts: 247
Location: Medford, OR
ColtonMelson is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damn i didnt know this. our local parts shop has sold me lots of 20-50 oil and i always seem to have an oil leak some were. rear main blown, fixed it. valve covers leaking, fixed it. now i have a leak coming somewere from the upper head studs under the tins Mad im changing it tomorrow!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dangermouse
Samba Member


Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 978
Location: Beautiful New Zealand
Dangermouse is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you; useful info neatly condensed. The 'what oil' thread has become so bulky and protracted as to be effectively useless to anyone looking for information on this topic.
_________________
Do not follow me, for I may not lead. Do not lead me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either; actually just bugger off and stand over there will you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Almost Alive
Samba Member


Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: Frankfort, Illinois/New Orleans, Louisiana
Almost Alive is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColtonMelson wrote:
damn i didnt know this. our local parts shop has sold me lots of 20-50 oil and i always seem to have an oil leak some were. rear main blown, fixed it. valve covers leaking, fixed it. now i have a leak coming somewere from the upper head studs under the tins Mad im changing it tomorrow!!!


20w50 = too much pressure = leaks everywhere. Being as the leaks are already there chances are switching will not do much, you will need to pull it out and have your way with it. Make sure its not your oil cooler leaking, if it is pull it out and do a pressure test on it. 70lbs of air through it is enough then toss it under water. You can make something using an old oil cooler stand and an air hose connector.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Almost Alive
Samba Member


Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: Frankfort, Illinois/New Orleans, Louisiana
Almost Alive is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Mod... whomever you may be thank you.
Seems as if half of the threads end up in the oil sticky and the others are locked because of pissing contests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bomberbaja
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Tri-Cities WA
bomberbaja is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dangermouse wrote:
Thank you; useful info neatly condensed. The 'what oil' thread has become so bulky and protracted as to be effectively useless to anyone looking for information on this topic.


x2 thank you. I've been a curious, but Ive avoided the oil sticky because it's too intimidating.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwracerdave
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 9395
Location: OKLAHOMA
vwracerdave is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you know who to believe and who not to believe?

I don't read any of the damn stickies any more.
_________________
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 11720
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColtonMelson wrote:
damn i didnt know this. our local parts shop has sold me lots of 20-50 oil and i always seem to have an oil leak some were. rear main blown, fixed it. valve covers leaking, fixed it. now i have a leak coming somewere from the upper head studs under the tins Mad im changing it tomorrow!!!


I've run straight weight 40W Valvoline in my 1835 engine for over 20 years. I haven't had the leak issues you describe.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2004 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
puddles
Samba Member


Joined: March 30, 2007
Posts: 77

puddles is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is 0w30 sae30?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DarthWeber
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7557
Location: Whittier,CA
DarthWeber is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

puddles wrote:
is 0w30 sae30?


Those are two different oils, 0W-30 is great for colder temps and works well in air cooled engines at startup where FLOW is critical. At operating temps both oils are the same from a viscosity standpoint.

Hope I passed the Moderators test here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pupjoint
Samba Member


Joined: May 23, 2007
Posts: 959

pupjoint is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i run 5W-30 coz thats all i can find.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Henrip
Samba Member


Joined: April 04, 2011
Posts: 40
Location: Mcbo/Venezuela
Henrip is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pupjoint wrote:
i run 5W-30 coz thats all i can find.


Same case, I run 20w50 and my motor always have a small leaking from somewhere also I notice the motor take a little more to warm up. But is the only oil that I can find the other one is 15w40.

I used to run 0w50 but now is out of the market Crying or Very sad
_________________
Bug 1959
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 59107
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost Alive wrote:
Also, Mod... whomever you may be thank you.
Seems as if half of the threads end up in the oil sticky and the others are locked because of pissing contests.

It's because oil is like religion, everyone thinks theirs is best.

ALL oil discussions spiral into arguments and yelling. That's why WE (the mods and admins) decided to have an OFFICIAL OIL topic to prevent a new topic being started everyday if not twice a day.

The OFFICIAL topic has rehashed the same stuff by the same people for years.

Here's what I posted in the very first post in the OFFICIAL topic... it's still true.
Glenn wrote:
Basically "clean" oil is best with frequent changes. Organic vs synthetic, single grade vs multi grade, diesel vs gasoline, does it really matter?


Let's not discuss brands, additives or organic vs synthetic in this topic. That belongs here: Official "What oil should I use" topic

It will be deleted or locked.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

iride4sue.org

Restored Bosch Cast Iron Distributors
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MinamiKotaro
Samba Member


Joined: July 18, 2008
Posts: 1071
Location: Somewhere in TN
MinamiKotaro is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run straight 30.
_________________
1967 VW Beetle
2276cc
MegaSquirt-extra v3.57
Check out my ongoing story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
[email protected]
Samba Member


Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 2243
Location: Brew City
roy@mofoco.com is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run and recommend straight 30 for solid lifter engines and 20W50 for hydraulic lifter engines.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nextgen
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 2758
Location: Pomona, N.Y.
nextgen is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a tip on a big sale of a synthetic 20-50 and bought boxes of the stuff.
Have been using it for years and no leaks. As most people believe synthetics are more prone to leaks, not in this case. The engine has 100k on it and the only leak is the drain plug washer, which I reused.

It is a T-4 and they do have better push rod tubes.

Hey like some of the guys said they run stright 30 no problems.

Leaks on aircooled engines are a part of life, that burnt oil smell is a normal part of the aircooled thing. That said, after 50 years that air cooled performance has been around most engine builders have got real good at thinking ahead to prevent oil leaks. So we see alot less.
_________________
site: www.nextgen-usa.com
email: [email protected]
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 59107
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few things that need to be stated like the condition of the engine, climate, closed engine compartment, secondary oil cooler and flaps/thermostat.


New engine under 10k
New York, cold winters and summer temps in the 90s
Beetle sedan, late model 4 vent decklid
Stock Type 1 oil cooler, no secondary cooler
flaps and thermostat installed along with all factory tin

I use 10W30. I used to use 15W40 and found my oil temps dropped after switching
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

iride4sue.org

Restored Bosch Cast Iron Distributors
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 59107
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I run and recommend straight 30 for solid lifter engines and 20W50 for hydraulic lifter engines.

What if the engine was sold to someone in Alaska?
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

iride4sue.org

Restored Bosch Cast Iron Distributors
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wildman1
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 675

wildman1 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New engine under 3500k
New England, cold winters and summer temps in the 90s
Beetle sedan, late model solid decklid top propped
Stock Type 1 oil cooler, no secondary cooler, full flowed
Flaps and thermostat installed along with all factory tin
Bug Pack 36'er shroud with proper mods to mimic German shroud

I use green 10W30. My engine is big and runs cool at 180* around town [through the filter mount] and 190-210* on the highway at speed or faster. I still need to fatt'n up the jetting, so I will update if temps are affected. Oil temps are monitered through an Auto Meter Sport Comp electrical gauge. I backup the temp readings with a calibrated Mainely oil temp dipstick and the occasional GBE temp stick. Wink [/b]

edited: I will add that my oil pressure readings are also from an Auto Meter Sport Comp electrical gauge and to verify, a mechanical gauge t'd at factory pressure sender location. I get 60lbs. cold start with current temps outside and 10lbs. per 1000rpms all the way up to 210* operating temp. The idle pressure drops to zero on both gauges after 190-200* operating temp, but they can be off since they are just cheap gauges. I never see the factory light flicker and the key off test proves good pressure. A touch of the throttle shoots pressure up to 45-60lbs. no matter what temp the engine oil is at. I have also varified good pressure per the "Official VW Manual", not a knock off. Wink


Last edited by wildman1 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Almost Alive
Samba Member


Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: Frankfort, Illinois/New Orleans, Louisiana
Almost Alive is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
I run and recommend straight 30 for solid lifter engines and 20W50 for hydraulic lifter engines.

What if the engine was sold to someone in Alaska?


Ya know what. I did forget about the hydro's. I do not have enough knowledge on them to really say much about it but I have read that VW recommended thicker oil in these engines from the factory, also a larger 30mm oil pump I believe.
Roy, do you have numbers as to what these types of engines run oil pressure and temp wise?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance - Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 23, 24, 25  Next
Jump to:
Page 1 of 25

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB