| Author |
Message |
Almost Alive
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Henrip wrote: |
| pupjoint wrote: |
| i run 5W-30 coz thats all i can find. |
Same case, I run 20w50 and my motor always have a small leaking from somewhere also I notice the motor take a little more to warm up. But is the only oil that I can find the other one is 15w40.
I used to run 0w50 but now is out of the market  |
Sorry guys but this is no excuse. If you cant find the right oil locally, order it. There are about half a dozen brands (which shall remain nameless per the mods requests) that have the proper amounts of the correct ingredients all in different weights. You can message me for the list if need be. Running the incorrect oil will not only cause immediate issues but you are risking premature bearing wear. Just because its convenient doesn't mean it should be done. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Almost Alive
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cusser wrote: |
| ColtonMelson wrote: |
damn i didnt know this. our local parts shop has sold me lots of 20-50 oil and i always seem to have an oil leak some were. rear main blown, fixed it. valve covers leaking, fixed it. now i have a leak coming somewere from the upper head studs under the tins  im changing it tomorrow!!! |
I've run straight weight 40W Valvoline in my 1835 engine for over 20 years. I haven't had the leak issues you describe. |
If your bearings are worn more than his 1600, you will most likely not have the same issues. All engines are different, attempting to make side by side comparisons is a waste of time unless you can compare bearing wear. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RockCrusher
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2010
Posts: 4596
Location: Parkesburg, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Almost Alive wrote: |
| Henrip wrote: |
Same case, I run 20w50 and my motor always have a small leaking from somewhere also I notice the motor take a little more to warm up. But is the only oil that I can find the other one is 15w40.
I used to run 0w50 but now is out of the market |
Sorry guys but this is no excuse. If you cant find the right oil locally, order it. |
But Henrip is in Venezuela........
_________________
[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.
I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Almost Alive
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RockCrusher wrote: |
| Almost Alive wrote: |
| Henrip wrote: |
Same case, I run 20w50 and my motor always have a small leaking from somewhere also I notice the motor take a little more to warm up. But is the only oil that I can find the other one is 15w40.
I used to run 0w50 but now is out of the market |
Sorry guys but this is no excuse. If you cant find the right oil locally, order it. |
But Henrip is in Venezuela........ |
How the hell did he get a car there let alone oil? 
Ships worldwide;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAD-PENN-GREEN-RAC...arQ5fParts |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Henrip
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: Mcbo/Venezuela
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Almost Alive wrote: |
| RockCrusher wrote: |
| Almost Alive wrote: |
| Henrip wrote: |
Same case, I run 20w50 and my motor always have a small leaking from somewhere also I notice the motor take a little more to warm up. But is the only oil that I can find the other one is 15w40.
I used to run 0w50 but now is out of the market |
Sorry guys but this is no excuse. If you cant find the right oil locally, order it. |
But Henrip is in Venezuela........ |
How the hell did he get a car there let alone oil?
Ships worldwide;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAD-PENN-GREEN-RAC...arQ5fParts |
Sorry guys, I always use the best product available for my car... In Venezuela the owner manual of the car recommend 0w40 but all my friends use 20w50 like the replace oil or 20w60 (Rare find)... In my case I used 0w50 but sadly is out of the market.
This is a copy of the document folder of the car.
I think the weather and the cooling system that you have in your car is very important. I run 200-220 degrees on the highway (The city were I live is around 42 degrees in the morning)
So for me 20w50 working so far... If I can find 0w40 sure I will bought It.
_________________
Bug 1959 (Sold)
Bug 1961 (Sold)
T2A Pickup 1970 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Almost Alive
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Henrip wrote: |
| Almost Alive wrote: |
| RockCrusher wrote: |
| Almost Alive wrote: |
| Henrip wrote: |
Same case, I run 20w50 and my motor always have a small leaking from somewhere also I notice the motor take a little more to warm up. But is the only oil that I can find the other one is 15w40.
I used to run 0w50 but now is out of the market |
Sorry guys but this is no excuse. If you cant find the right oil locally, order it. |
But Henrip is in Venezuela........ |
How the hell did he get a car there let alone oil?
Ships worldwide;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAD-PENN-GREEN-RAC...arQ5fParts |
Sorry guys, I always use the best product available for my car... In Venezuela the owner manual of the car recommend 0w40 but all my friends use 20w50 like the replace oil or 20w60 (Rare find)... In my case I used 0w50 but sadly is out of the market.
This is a copy of the document folder of the car.
I think the weather and the cooling system that you have in your car is very important. I run 200-220 degrees on the highway (The city were I live is around 42 degrees in the morning)
So for me 20w50 working so far... If I can find 0w40 sure I will bought It. |
Old news my friend. Just because it was correct back then doesn't mean it is now... unless of course you are still running leaded gas and have a NOS supply of good oil from 50 years ago.
Fact is, oils are COMPLETELY different now than they were then. There are much better options now and chances are the oil you are running doesn't even have the proper amounts of zinc in it which will cause excessive valve train wear quickly. If you are unfamiliar with this zinc issue, please read the "what oil should I use" sticky or your engine will need a rebuild in no time.
As a matter of fact, now that I think of it. There is very little in your manual that has not been improved upon since they made it. You need to abide by "How to keep my VW alive" rather than the service manual. Even the factory valve adjustment specs have been improved upon. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15302
Location: Deep in the 405
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Almost Alive wrote: |
Old news my friend. Just because it was correct back then doesn't mean it is now... unless of course you are still running leaded gas and have a NOS supply of good oil from 50 years ago.
Fact is, oils are COMPLETELY different now than they were then. |
You don't have a clue young man. You started this topic to be only about weight. Nothing has changed in 50 years. The way they measure the viscosity of cold pour and hot pour rates of oil has never changed. The weight of oil the car manufacturer recommended 50 years ago is still the same weight of oil you should run today. Yes the chemical composition and additives of new oil has changed, but the weight ratings have not.
Another thing you must learn is that there are different oils around the world. What is available here in the USA may not be available in another country. Because of import laws and import taxes they may not have the option of just simply ordering what you think they should be using.
Here's another tidbit of info. Refined motor oil has a shelf life of about 4 or 5 years. Even if you never open the bottle it will start to chemically separate and degenerate.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I run and recommend straight 30 for solid lifter engines and 20W50 for hydraulic lifter engines. |
What if the engine was sold to someone in Alaska? |
Ha, ha, ha....or Egypt?(actually sold a few engines to people in Africa) Anyway, I do give a disclaimer that if their climate is very different than here, they should discuss with other people who own aircooled engines in the area. IF they don't know anyone, they need to do some experiments with my recomendations as a baseline. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Nothing has changed in 50 years. The way they measure the viscosity of cold pour and hot pour rates of oil has never changed. The weight of oil the car manufacturer recommended 50 years ago is still the same weight of oil you should run today. |
Actually the multi grade oil not is much better than that of the 1970s. That's why the factory recommended a single grade. These days the only engine I still use a single grade is on my lawn mower.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, recommended the use of Silicone for anything in the 1950s. Makes no sense.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nsracing
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9461
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Straight 30W oil is great for garden tractors and lawnmowers in the summer. I also use it for assembly lube. 
10W30 or 10W40 are what I use in street engines, and use it to first-time running higher compression race engines. AFter that, the race engine will get 20W50.
30W is thicker than 20W50. If the engine is plenty worn enough, I am sure it can take 30W in summer mos.
I ran 5W30 in an early Bug in the the winter mos, when I was stationed in Minot AFB, ND. With an oil heater plugged, it starts right up in dead of winter. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Almost Alive
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Almost Alive wrote: |
Old news my friend. Just because it was correct back then doesn't mean it is now... unless of course you are still running leaded gas and have a NOS supply of good oil from 50 years ago.
Fact is, oils are COMPLETELY different now than they were then. |
You don't have a clue young man. You started this topic to be only about weight. Nothing has changed in 50 years. The way they measure the viscosity of cold pour and hot pour rates of oil has never changed. The weight of oil the car manufacturer recommended 50 years ago is still the same weight of oil you should run today. Yes the chemical composition and additives of new oil has changed, but the weight ratings have not.
Another thing you must learn is that there are different oils around the world. What is available here in the USA may not be available in another country. Because of import laws and import taxes they may not have the option of just simply ordering what you think they should be using.
Here's another tidbit of info. Refined motor oil has a shelf life of about 4 or 5 years. Even if you never open the bottle it will start to chemically separate and degenerate. |
Dave, I was referring to the content of the oil not the weights of them. What was recommended from VW at the factory is much different than what should be used in it today... for the most part because of the zinc issue. Say you've got a bottle of oil, or possibly a can if we are speaking that old. You buy its brand new off the shelf counterpart and what the oils are made of will be almost if not completely different. I think you will be very hard pressed to find current production original formula oil from that era.
Now for the weights. I read once upon a time that VW chose these specific weights for the tolerances of the engine. Lighter oil for close tolerances and vice versa. This is something with no change. The weights recommended then will be the same weights as today though saying VW recommended something back then so it must be correct today is kind of silly. Especially with the performance and oiling mods we are doing.
I was aware of the shelf life of the oil which is why I was being a bit sarcastic with the NOS oil remark.
I am also aware of the different oils around the world but what I did not think of was importing them. Oils here may not be RoHS compliant and they might not be allowed past the customs office doors.
Last edited by Almost Alive on Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Almost Alive
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2009
Posts: 1345
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nsracing wrote: |
10W30 or 10W40 are what I use in street engines, and use it to first-time running higher compression race engines. AFter that, the race engine will get 20W50. |
This may be the exception. I've never done testing on high compression race engines, I've never owned one. Can you tell me why you would run it? What the advantages or reasons are? I'm very curious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nsracing
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9461
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After the first pass, the motor is super freaking hot. These engines do not have cooling whatsoever. Even w/ tiny squirrel cage fans, it will NOT cool it enough before you make the 2nd pass. We have run 10W40 plenty at the track, but we like the 20W50 better.
Majority racers will run 30W. They work. And then again, none of us are privy to their engine build put into the engine. So it is anyone's guess.
If you can maintain the cooling, then you have some control of the clearances when the motor reaches operating temperature. But if it is drag engine, who knows what temperatures you end up w/ at the track when it is qualifying time, hot day, running lean and you don't have the proper jet sizes available. Or someone forgot to load the giant fan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26777
Location: Colorado Springs
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There are many reasons to go to bigger clearances and heavier oil in a drag engine.
But you must remember the clearance and the temp, and the oil weight go together.
What you do NOT want, is tight clearances and thick oil. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TURBOEDVW
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I choose the weight of oil based on what the average outside temps are going to be while operating. If I'm in the desert in May and its 90-100 I run 20W-50. If its Jan. and its a high of 50 and low of 30s, I run 10w-30.
To say a vw only needs 20W-50 if its wore out is B.S.
Why is this even a debate? Read any automobile owners manual and the weight of oil you should be using is relative to the outside temperatures during operation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| modok wrote: |
| What you do NOT want, is tight clearances and thick oil. |
Right. Like hydraulic lifters and 20W-50.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vwonnos wrote: |
| Why is this even a debate? Read any automobile owners manual and the weight of oil you should be using is relative to the outside temperatures during operation. |
Not true. Most auto makers recommend only one viscosity for all conditions. That's because most modern cars' engines have the ability to run at exactly the same oil temp regardless of what the weather is. IOW, they run the same oil temp in AZ in the summer as they do in ND in the winter.
Better than using the weather report to determine your viscosity is to measure your engine's actual oil temp.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26777
Location: Colorado Springs
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
yep
What is ironic, is the "tuner" crowd
Story: kid wants to soup up his honda or whatever
Buys new rod bearings and expensive H-beam rods, and uses 20-50 racing oil
Puts it together, in blissful ignorance of the fact they got .001 rod bearing clearance.
It throws a rod
What happens is if the rod bearing does not have enough oil FLOW, it overheats and melts.
If they had used 10-30 oil, it might have been ok.
This story happens more often than you'd think
The moral of the story is if you want to use 20-50 racing oil, you also need to use "racing" bearing clearance specs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
craigman
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 2397
Location: redding
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yep, thick oil is for loose clearances.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
