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'77 Sage Green Westfalia Super Repair Father-Son Project...
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lukejumes
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: '77 Sage Green Westfalia Super Repair Father-Son Project... Reply with quote

This should be appropriately categorized under the 'Is this one worth it?' category.

Forewarned!

Hey all,
I got a Dad who's a mostly retired Mechanic & I justly want to learn a thing or two from him while I still live at home : )

I found this specimen on the local craigspot, about 45 minutes from home.
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My Dad & I are working through this tough time together. She runs & drives & wears well the 151,000 miles upon her.

Here are some more for your consideration.
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She's even got 5 speakers rooted through her chassis!
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This is all available for a modest $1650 asking price with 6 panels to fix the body rust & those frontal bindings (not sure of the actual name?).

I am hot blooded about this vehicle, but would be sad to buy a lot of wasted effort : (

I want to take this up & down the coast (Eastern), to the great North (Canada) & make a remarkable many journeys together (camping!).

I have done the effective research of realizing how unpleasant of a job the remaking of Torsion Housings can be. Does anyone have practical experience to share with this?

My Dad is skeptical. We are making journey #2 to test drive it on Wednesday night. He talks real-talk with me about it but I hear him jazz up it's merits in conversations (with his dearest pals). He has said he's willing to do it with me if I really want to but he's not sure where it'll go. I'd hate to put him through drudgery with no hope of payoff.

What do all of you think?

Kindly, Luke
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surfinbusslover
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man! Sick! Good luck with all of the work and fun ahead of you! I know buying my bus has been the best choice ive made, and doing the work myself along with the the help of my dad is a great time and definitely makes it worth it! so good luck man!
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lukejumes
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind encouragements!

Pa will have the final say, but I am very hopeful!
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old DKP driver
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: new camper Reply with quote

It is a great looking Westy and it's great your Father has been in the repair
business.
As this will rejuvenate him. Shocked with all the body work to come.

There have been many here that have done awesome body and frame work
that seemed impossible but, they did it.

Start looking at some of the threads on them here. do a search.
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lukejumes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having trouble finding a good thread for rusty frame working. Anyone have a link?
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scrivyscriv Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely has all of the normal rust. I didn't see any close ups of the windows but you can probably assume they have sill rust, especially the windshield.
The metalwork shouldn't be too difficult. Get a decent MIG w/gas setup and pick up either repop or cut-out pieces to fix what's bad.
Rear torsion bars shouldn't be much different, just take your time. I haven't done any of that kind of repairs or even researched them much, but if it's significant rust-thru, use that as a talk-down point on the price.
I'm in the South, and I scored a bus in better condition - with a locked up 1700 engine and a tranny in unknown condition - for $600, with all glass, all doors, most of the interior, needing all the typical rust repairs yours needs, minus the rear suspension and some of the outrigger issues I see here. I'd start with a lowball offer, because in all seriousness, you'll be spending a good bit of time, research and money on the repairs..

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=375428&start=0

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525589

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=543445&start=0

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...highlight=

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529947&start=0

users wrstp, skills@eurocars and a few others I can't think of off the top have some good writeups, and you can find a lot of actual frame repairs tucked in with other body repair threads. Search for outrigger repairs, top hat repairs, jack point repairs, dogleg repairs.. Check out any of the forums for guys who lower buses, since they go pretty deep into the frame and have lots of photos of it all to help with locating specific parts.
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lukejumes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scrivyscriv,
Thanks for all that pertinent info! I particularly liked the completed projects thread. Makes my work seem more attainable : )

I am still looking/wondering about the rear torsion housing. I found earlier (in a dune buggy thread [that I can't seem to find]) that I could replace the chassis. This might be possible for me with another local machine or parts especially in CT.

Does anyone have an idea about swapping a chassis? How difficult that is?

Any and all views welcomed & desired!

Sweetly, Luke
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scrivyscriv Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bus is a unibody vehicle, unlike the body-and-chassis bug. You can't 'swap' out the chassis, per se: About all you can do is cut out the rusty parts and weld donor frame back in. Everything is made up of spot and plug welded steel layers. Now there are a couple threads floating around where guys have done body-off bus restos, just to be clear, but that's an entirely different game.
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Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
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Hoody
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run Forest Run! What you have in your pics underneath is scary. You REALY have to look at the front beam and where the rear trailing arms attach. The fact that the dog legs are that bad tell me the bus underneath is beyond repair. Looks like a good donor though. Where most people make the mistake on any old car is not looking very closely at the integrity of the underside. With unibody, meaning the frame is part of the body this can be an insanely expensive venture.
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CoastalAirCooledVW
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a parts bus. Unless it was a barndoor or a 21/23 that is one for the crusher. My westy that I got for free and my $400 westy are both in better shape than that rust on wheels. Remember: That is only the rust you see on the surface and at least double that is hidden. The only reason I would buy that bus would be for parts. Rusty rockers I can live with, rusted out frames not so much. Also that engine may have been overheated and on its last legs from not having a sealed engine compartment. Good luck
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obnoxiousblue
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ def not a parts bus the way things are in the north-east. That's very much normal for a typical "unrestored" bus round these parts. Especially, if that bus has spent time in Mass. where he's from.

Keep on it. It needs work, but people have done more, with less.

Looking forward to your build.
Make sure she's driveable for Transporterfest and the camp outin Salem!
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nodrenim
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think very long and hard on this one before spending a nickel on it. If you have deep rust in the torsion housings, it's replacement time for the complete housing, with a solid unit. To me this is a parts bus, as the interior seems to be in decent condition. Good Luck!
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lukejumes
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hrmmm... Well, this tanks definitely got me thinkin'...

I agree obnoxiousblue, from what I see & hear in my local tribes. Though, I consider the option of having CT nearby quite helpful!

Test drive tonight & initial bargaining likely.

I'll keep in touch!
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ROCKOROD71
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at that on craigslist as well. I just bought my Westy in December, it was the first one I went to look at with the intention of buying, and I sprang for it because it DIDN"T have all that rust. The price is cheap, especially for around here, but bodywork will eat the bulk of your budget. As I recall from the ad there are a few body panels included in the sale, which is nice, but as I've found the quality of panels varies greatly, and you'll need to do your homework and try to buy the best quality stuff you can afford. Klassic Fab is first choice but he doesn't do many pieces for the bays. A.H. Scofield in England also has a killer reputation for body panels, and some nice write ups on their website. You can score some good deals at the VW shows/events, look into going to some club meets, there are alot of folks around here with ACVWs and parts for them. I will be doing some rust repair on mine shortly, and I'll have some leftover panels. PM me if you purchase the ol' girl, I know some local folks you might be able to get some of what you need from. Make no mistake, it is a hunt. You can get panels from places like Bus Depot, but price and quality is a concern. Always ask who manufactured the part and what country it comes from. Thin, wavy, chinese panels are everywhere and mostly useless.
Good luck!
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lukejumes
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa! Thanks so much ROCKOROD!

My Dad is pretty down on this 'cause of that (belly) rust. I would really like a knowledgable opinion on how much work that is & what it will cost. Have any idea?

I'll keep in touch!

Thanks for the cautioning about the panels. I'll quiz 'em tonight.
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thewalrus
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that thing on Craigslist too. RUN AWAY fast and don't look back. Nice contender for a parts bus but that frame is shot. Save your $1650 and start looking out West. People saying it's "typical New England rust" are talking out their arse. Yes it's rusty, yes it has parts, no it's not worth restoring.

Here's an idea: if you have your heart set on a late bay Westfalia talk the seller down to $500-$800 max and save it for parts and from the scrap yard. Get the engine running, the interior spruced up, buy new tires, etc. and start looking out West for a dry body. I can personally tell you this is the exact route I should have taken 7 years ago when I bought my bus and mine didn't/doesn't have ANYWHERE near that amount of rust.

lukejumes wrote:
My Dad is pretty down on this 'cause of that (belly) rust. I would really like a knowledgable opinion on how much work that is & what it will cost. Have any idea?

Thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Walk away man.

Feel free to shoot me a PM too. You're just down the road in Acton so I'd be happy to help a newby out Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're feeling ambitious on the body work, go for it! But as a word of caution, if that is the rust you can see, there is a good chance there is a lot more hiding behind the paint.
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