New bay window owner/Watercooled Conversion

chazz79 · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject:

Towards the flywheel end of the engine there is an aluminum box that hangs on the exhaust side. This is a large junction point that has temp sensors and the heater core bungs on it. Out of that box there is a 1.25" tube that wraps around the back side of the head to the intake side of the head. This tube is in the way. On the flywheel end of the head there is a large triangular protrusion that I believe serves as an egr mounting point. It's usually blocked with a plate on most cars I've seen, but it's a cast part of the head that will extend into the fuel tank area of the bus.

If you have an engine from a j-body (cav or sunfire) you can't use the head at all. The intake cam drives a power steering pump off the back (flywheel side) end of it. I suppose you could get a plug made for that or check to see if a company is producing it yet.

I love the engine and would've gone with it but I didn't want to do irreversable damage to my bus. The thing weighs 100 lbs less than the cast iron lump I went with and makes 50hp more. Add in that the injection system is easily adapted and it may be worth the added headache.
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The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject:

As far as the PS pump, we made a simple block off plate out of 1/8" aluminum and siliconed it in place. No issues in 2 years of high strung buggy abuse.

I know what you're talking about with the water inlet, but I can't see that getting in the way of the bus sheet metal? Now you have me wondering. I'm going to take a look.

I'll cut the bus engine bay if I have to (I'm already planning to make the rear "apron" removable to make engine R/R easier). I would hate to cut any more than necessary though.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

chazz79 · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject:

I had a typo in a previous post... pre 2002 units are not to be used. They have a good deal of oiling issues that were addressed in 2003. The 2002 and earlier engines can be used but you should replace all of the timing components and update the timing chain oil squirter. You will just have to live with the smaller oil galleys of the earlier design (not a problem since you aren't going for high horsepower).

To get around the J-body head issue, just find a saturn head. They don't have the cam driven power steering pump.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject:

I forgot the exact year of my motor, but it was 2004 or so.

OK, I went and looked, and I see what you're saying about the firewall.

I see a removable panel on the firewall, I'm assuming behind that is the gas tank? I better wait on ordering the adapter. I'll go measure my friends buggy to see how far behind the bellhousing that sticks off, then pull the 2.0 out of the bus and see how much room I have. This changes alot Sad

_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

chazz79 · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject:

Don't let me discourage you. That firewall only offers @1/2 inch max before you hit the tank when it's removed. You could Have the tank and firewall modified to clear that area. You'd lose a bit of fuel capacity but it'd beat having to go with a dedicated fuel cell. Anyone good with a tig torch can do it and provide leak free results.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject:

Yeah, that's alot of cutting and welding on something I want to be able to drive anywhere. I know there's an ecotec in a split bus, I'm currently searching the forum for info and pics on the issues he found.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

dcdubs · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject:

looks like a good bus, cant wait to see it come back to life
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dcdubs/glcustoms
AllRightGarageDoorsNW.com

chazz79 · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject:

The reliability issue is why I went with the 2.3l. It's a little boring but parts are cheap and on the shelf anywhere you go. It also fit without any cutting. The cradle I built allows it to drop out within 2 hours and maintenance hasn't been an issue. I've been working out bugs and making my harness a bit more professional. I'm almost 100% on the cooling system. I'll add a full write-up with plans for my belly radiator set up when I get it finalized. That's the only thing I've done that is impressive enough to warrant others copying. The rest has relied on trial and error too much to make suggestions to others on. I haven't been more than 30 miles away from the house and only have @500 miles on it. My confidence in it grows with every outing and soon enough I'll be doing some distance traveling.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Desertbusman · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject:

Which one of your two threads on the same subject are you going to use? Use one and dump the other.
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The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject:

As you can see, I've done that. This thread is for the build of my bus and thus the motor conversion. The other thread was a technical question about clutches. Since that thread got sidetracked into the ecotec conversion, I copied his post over here and we've stuck to this thread ever since.

Thanks for your concern though Rolling Eyes

_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject:

OK, it's midnight and raining here, but that didn't stop me from going out and taking some measurements Laughing

(I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight without some info).

The back of the motor has the cooling tube (metal) and hose (rubber) coming off, as well as the EGR mount (blocked off on my motor).

The tube only sticks off about an inch from the bellhousing mating surface. The rubber hose and clamp sticks about 2.5" past the bellhousing. Figuring the adapter is at least 1/2" thick, so that means I'll need 2" behind the motor to clear the hose. At worst, I can pull that metal tube out, or cut and weld a different one on that re-routes the hose another way.

Also, out of curiosity, I measured the overall engine bay length. The number bantered around for the ecotec is 21" overall. The engine bay from firewall to latch is 26"+, so I should have plenty of room length wise.

So I think I can make the ecotec work without major surgery. I'll have to get the adapter and get the motor in to see if the exhaust manifold will work (it will point the exhaust outlet directly to the left side of the bus about halfway up the engine). I'm hoping to have room in the stock engine opening to put a "U" on that and get the exhaust to exit.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject:

Desertbusman · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject:

chazz79 · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:32 am Post subject:

Another thing you'll appreciate about the ecotec is that the alternator will be the only belt driven accessory, unless you chose to add A/C (if so have all the accessories installed when mocking up). The alternators start out at 95 amp and go up from there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

this is the view from the bottom of my radiator skid plate. My fans mount underneeth a pull from above. Air is driven through the front scoop, through the radiator and then through the belly pan. I'm modifying it right now to incorporate a radiator that will require few hose connections, making for fewer points of failure.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The current radiator has connections that are a little inconvenient. It cools well but I'll be using a vw a3 radiator that has uniform sized inlets that will both be at the rear of my radiator pan, putting them closer to the engine.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:57 am Post subject:

I was reading your thread last night and saw your setup. Do you have trouble controlling water temps at all with it?

I was going to do something similar, but I was going to put the fans on top of the radiator, build a scoop at the back of the radiator to stack air up around the core, then use the fans to pull air through. I figured I'd have an air dam going from the front of the radiator to the body to keep a low pressure area by the fans. Hard to explain.

One thing is for sure, I want it to work.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

chazz79 · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject:

Most of my problems arose from the current radiator having smaller inlets than my tubes coming from the engine. I had to improvise a bunch of adaptors and it really looked like crap. It would sit and idle fine but the fans ran quite a bit. They never ran when moving so I know the scoop idea was effective.

The A3 radiator is a dual pass unit that cooled the vr6 (2.8l) just fine. There isn't a radiator cap to worry about and it has a bung in it for a fan temp switch. The drain petcock will act as a nice bleed valve. I'm hoping for better results but what the hey, it may just be another 200.00 experiment.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:55 am Post subject:

Well, yesterday I took the plunge and ordered the 228mm adapter kit from Kennedy. After discussing with my wife, we decided to try to have the bus drivable for the Pasco Bug Jam weekend which is in November.

I'm a full time nursing student, and we have a 3 week break in August before the final semester. Knowing how crazy our final semester will be, I want to try and do most of the work on that break.

The next (first?) step is to get my garage organized so we can pull the bus in and start working on it.

Oh, and the bus now has a name. Regis. We have a chain of banks around here called Regions Bank. They have bright green in their logo. My wife always says she wants things painted Regions green. Sage green is close to that green.
_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

Mr. Unpopular · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject:

Last weekend my wife and I spent 2 days cleaning up both garages and condensing my vast collection of VW parts (junk?) so we could have room to bring Regis inside. We wanted him out of the sun and rain not only to protect him, but so I could start on the engine swap.

So this is what some of my garage looks like.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And like many before me who don't buy Bentley's, think their fuel lines look "OK", love their fuel filters sitting right over the distributor cap, and run with scissors, I purchased wooden furniture dollies from Harbor Freight to make moving him around the garage much easier. These are rated at 1000 lbs each and were $11.99 a piece, so if they didn't work I wasn't out alot of money.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Finally, here are a couple of pics of the modified interior. Obviously the counter top has been added, but I'm confused about the cabinet itself. I'm not sure if this bus should've had a stove or not, whether that cigarette lighter is stock, and why the spare tire door doesn't stick out a few inches past the other doors.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is a breakdown of the M-Code plate.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Reasons to hate me:
FloriDUH resident
I'm a male nurse
I have a late model bug (with only 3 bolts holding the motor in)
I have a rail buggy (with no front brakes or shocks)
I have a late bay Westy (It's got a water-cooled motor)

DropgateLefty · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject:

Good job getting Reeg under cover. I wish I had garage space like that!

Still diggin' the green and yellow plaid.
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April '59 dove blue single cab, coast to coast run Dec 2011 -
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488658&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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New bay window owner/Watercooled Conversion
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