Dual Vacuum Distributor Timing

vee dub dan · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject:

I think my car must have been an auto-stick at one point, I have a port plugged on the side of the manifold right below the carb and was told it was for autosticks and the distributor that came with it is apparently for an autostick.

Anyways, I'm not near the car to test this atm.. will try this weekend. The only problem is that when I use the timing light (pulling the trigger) it kills the engine, even when I have the light hooked up to an extra battery. I'm going to assume it's because it's a universal, you pull the spark plug wire off the dist cap and put a metal spring in between them. I'll borrow a better timing light.

I might also put my 009 back on for now (and not mess with these 2), until I can get a working distributor that is also correct for the car; 205AN.
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

glutamodo · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:03 pm Post subject:

volkenstein · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject:

Veedubdan,
^^ WHS. I will add that a 205AH is pretty wrong for your beast.

You will get better service out of a 205AN or any other late model MANUAL car's distributor, be it DVDA or SVDA.

That 205AH suits my own vehicle specfically, and even I get better "seat-of-the-pants" feel with other distributors.

Long term, I would look to a more suited distributor.

Enjoy
Volkenstein
_________________
71 RHD AS Super - "Klaus"...
Wisdom of youth, energy of old age...

ashman40 · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject:

Here's the spec for your distributor:

Beetle 1971-1973 * 1600 Auto-Stick Trans
Distributor: VW 113-905-205AH, Bosch 0231 167 053 > 043-905-205D, 0231 176 033
Can Use: VW 043-905-205D, Bosch 0231 176 033, 211-905-205Q, 0231 167 055, 211-905-205S, 0231 173 001
Points: 01 011
Points Replacement Plate Assy: VW 311-905-227C, Bosch 1237 110 161
Condensor: 02 054
Rotor: 04 033
Dust Cover: 039-905-241, Bosch 1230 500 139 > 1230 500 147
Cap: 03 010
Distributor Cap Clip: 034-905-265, Bosch 1231 251 033
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil: 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 092
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 5deg ATDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe, vacuum hose(s) connected.
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 2-5deg Adv, 11-13deg Ret; Centrifugal: 12-16deg @ 2200rpm, 22-25deg @ 3800rpm

Note the Centrifugal timing specs. Your distributor should test within the ranges listed. It doesn't actually state WHEN the mechanical advance starts to kick in, if it doesn't start to come in until 2200rpm, it would be lacking power just off idle. Normally the vacuum advance would provide the additional advance in this range, but yours is apprently broken.

If you have a vacuum hand pump you could test your vacuum can for the andvance/retard settings listed (not sure you can suck hard enough to get the vacuum can to full advance/retard).
Does the vacuum retard hose coming from the rear-facing carb port have vacuum at idle? It should. Can you feel it sucking when you place your finger over the distributor end of the hose?
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad

}
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

ashman40 · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject:

vee dub dan · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject:

Oh, i thought that at least the advance line was critical in making the engine run right. I wonder then, what caused me to lose all power considering all i changed was the distributor and throttle plate. I was pretty careful in making sure the dist cap went back on the way it came off
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

ashman40 · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject:

Bruce · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject:

If the vacuum isn't working the engine will still run good. You won't get the increased mileage a vacuum advance gives, and you won't get the clean idle the retard gives.
_________________

vee dub dan · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject:

I'm going to bump this with some updated information and problems..
Using a Solex 34Pict-3 DVDA Carb VW325_3
113 905 205 AH DVDA Distributor
Case: AE 910215
Manifold: 113 129 701 AP

Recently bought a DVDA distributor from a swap meet, very clean but the plates were frozen. Tore it apart and got them to move again. Sucking in on the vacuum line and neither advance nor retard move the plates. It idles fine but has no power what-so-ever, I barely made it up the inch gap between grass and garage. Note: I realize as I'm typing this that the points gap is not correctly set.

Since I couldn't get the new dizzy plates to move (via sucking on the vacuum line), I tried doing it on the old dvda with a non functioning retard line and realized that the plates are completely frozen. I could not move them with a screwdriver, yet my car used to run (went back and forth to 4 car shows at an hour drive each way, plus some other car shows like this) Maybe they recently froze up, but it's been less than a week since I pulled it.

I'm assuming I need a new distributor (or maybe have Glenn rebuild the vacuum, since I think he said he recently does that) but just want some guidance. If the vacuum isn't working at all, it would make sense that I have no power because the timing isn't being changed when I raise the RPM?
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

vee dub dan · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject:

Ok I understand now, thanks.

I put a new throttle plate on with the smaller hole for now, since the Retard line doesn't seem to be working I'm going to just time it as a SVDA for now. Will look for a new DVDA Distributor this summer at swap meets and switch to a 5/32" hole in the throttle plate when I get that working.

Thanks to everyone for all the help. Very Happy

Dan
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

glutamodo · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject:

The hole allows some extra air to bypass the throttle plate, needed when the retard part of the carburetor/distributor is functional - because with the timing cranked back that far, the engine is going to want to idle at a very low speed. That hole allows for proper idle adjustments with the volume and bypass screws on the side of the carb with it at 5ATDC. The SVDA version is smaller becuase it idles at 12 degrees more advance.

Some people will close off that hole to try and make carbs run richer at lower speeds to counteract acceleration flat spots.

-Andy

vee dub dan · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject:

Yup looked at the bottom plate going into the manifold and could not see a hole.. I saw a spot where it looks like it goes. The car had a dvda on it when I got it, we put a 009 on and later I bought the new carb and finally recently put the dvda dist. back on.
What does the hole inthe throttle plate do and what would not having one cause (symptoms?)

Also if the vacuum isn't working, since the timing doesn't change when I pull the tubing from the retard end, I don't want to drill a 5/32" hole in this throttle plate until I get a working vacuum?

Going to go pull it apart, make sure there really isn't a hole and maybe just swap it for now.
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

Joey · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject:

There's no hole in your throttle plate? You are looking at the throttle plate and not the choke plate. Did the engine have a 009 in the past? Sounds like this mod was attempted:

http://www.aircooledtech.com/34pict3_modification/

Drill out the hole using a 5/32" drill bit.
_________________
Joey

‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle

vee dub dan · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject:

So if the carb is designed for a dvda dist but its not working I assume it's the distributor. I'll try and find a new one this summer..
However what is me not having a hole in the carb throttle plate doing?
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

glutamodo · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject:

That is a DVDA style carburetor. Should have a throttle butterfly as shown above. Originally a 1973 California manual transmission model carb - mated with the 113905205AN distributor. It had the older style accelerator pump linkage that interferes with an alternator.

vee dub dan · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

glutamodo · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject:

Wrong base flange number. The one we need is on the other side.

vee dub dan · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject:

So it's a Solex 34 pict-3 made in Germany.. Holley must have sold them, which is why I thought that's what it was. Is the second picture the flange number? It was on the right side next to the alternator at the bottom.

I do not see a hole on the throttle plate... is that bad? Embarassed

What would symptoms of no hole be? I can probably find a DVDA carb sitting around and swap those plates out.
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA

glutamodo · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject:

Holley 34PICT-3? never seen one of those. The big difference is the size of the hole in the throttle plate - it's larger on DVDA carbs because with the timing cranked way back 12 degrees from SVDA the amount of air flow needed for proper idle adjustment is different. The sizes were mentioned above. Here's a picture:

vee dub dan · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject:

Pretty sure it's a Holley 34pict-3 from Autozone.... Will double check when I go get it ready for a show tomorrow. About a year after I got it, a couple people here said I should have just rebuilt an old one (or bought a rebuilt one), but oh well.

So this carb probably isn't set up for the DV? I did have a Bosch 009 on it but was told the original dist would be better since the engine is stock.

I had a lot of mixed information from when I got the car compared to what I know now. Definitely learning a lot but still a lot to go.

Where's the flange number...?
_________________
1974 Standard Beetle - Slammed
1956 Deluxe Oval - Running project
1969 Deluxe Transporter

Fresh Air VW Car Club - Pittsburgh, PA


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