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Sunray Bugs Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 40 Location: FL
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: |
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blankmange wrote: |
then, by all means, 'splain it.... rather than give us the coy 'legal issues prevent me from telling...' bullshit, just come out of the closet and say whatever it is you are hiding....
you'll feel better, really you will.... |
I have offered to provide information to anyone who has a question and (unlike many others here) I am trying to be respectful here to everyone. But respect seems to be in short supply on this thread as we have been insulted, ridiculed and made to feel like outsiders undeserving of being a forum member by a select Samba "clique" that seem to like to push people around and be cyber bullies.
I had alway heard The Samba was a great place for the VW enthusiast to meet like-minded people. So far, that has not been my experience. We have treated everyone here nicely and with respect. It has not been a reciprocal arrangement, thus far. _________________ Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page!
Last edited by Sunray Bugs on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:23 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Sunray Bugs Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 40 Location: FL
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Gary wrote: |
This thread is a great example of how some people don't live in reality and that said people have a persecution complex if others point out the errors of their ways.
Collecting is nice, and a true collector would understand the point where he is unable to save everything. A true collector understands that if he truly believes something should be saved for future generations it is better to either cut his losses pass the item(s) to another who can care for said item(s)....blah blah blah |
As I explained before, this is not about Corky's collection. It is about a business (a salvage yard) that is being forced to clean up scrap metal that is within view of the highway. _________________ Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page!
Last edited by Sunray Bugs on Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Herbie3Rivers Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2001 Posts: 1271 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Someone I know up here in PA called today, thinking they'd send their dad who lives nearby to go pick up a car and they were shot down on the phone that they're not selling anything else until the law is off their backs. _________________ Yeah I like Herbie AND New Beetles. Got a problem with it? Tough.
2010 New Beetle Final Edition
2009 Ford Mustang Bullitt
1999 New Beetle GLS
1983 Mercedes 300D
1974 Karmann Ghia
1972 Super Beetle
1970 Beetle Sunroof
1959 Original Herbie #6
1956 Oval
Three Rvers VW Club
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix
Visit Herbie the Love Bug at LoveBugFans.com |
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joe56vw Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004 Posts: 3202 Location: Olympia wa
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Sunray Bugs wrote: |
Gary wrote: |
This thread is a great example of how some people don't live in reality and that said people have a persecution complex if others point out the errors of their ways.
Collecting is nice, and a true collector would understand the point where he is unable to save everything. A true collector understands that if he truly believes something should be saved for future generations it is better to either cut his losses pass the item(s) to another who can care for said item(s)....blah blah blah |
Oh... so now let's define what a "true collector" is and what a "true collector" SHOULD do with THEIR possessions.
As I explained before, this is not about Corky's collection. It is about a business (a salvage yard) that is being forced to clean up scrap metal that is within view of the highway. |
sounds like the same thing to me
honsetly who cares about this corky guy or his yard
there;s is nothing that can be done about those cars now
except learn from it and try not to let something like this happen again
and btw quit posting those long post i'm sure i'm not the only one who stops reading them after the first 3 or 4 sentences _________________ '60 15 window walkthrough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559931&highlight=
why is there no sarcasism button on here? |
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Herbie3Rivers Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2001 Posts: 1271 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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The long posts are too emotional, like it's a family member typing them, that can't remove themselves from the situation to see the other side of the coin as to what was going on here.
You're right though, it's not about Corky, and it's really not about the business either. This could happen to ANY VW shop/junkyard/collection, what ever. _________________ Yeah I like Herbie AND New Beetles. Got a problem with it? Tough.
2010 New Beetle Final Edition
2009 Ford Mustang Bullitt
1999 New Beetle GLS
1983 Mercedes 300D
1974 Karmann Ghia
1972 Super Beetle
1970 Beetle Sunroof
1959 Original Herbie #6
1956 Oval
Three Rvers VW Club
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix
Visit Herbie the Love Bug at LoveBugFans.com |
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my65vert Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2003 Posts: 6186 Location: Middleburg, Florida
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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updates from ground zero? _________________ OGJHC
Kombisutra;
I'm starting to get little wafts of bus stink coming from the north. Something about the unique scent of drivers seat padding when it's glued together with mouse piss and shit that really gets me going... and I'm smelling it! Oh yeah! Time to start loading up the equipment. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Gary wrote: |
This thread is a great example of how some people don't live in reality and that said people have a persecution complex if others point out the errors of their ways.
Collecting is nice, and a true collector would understand the point where he is unable to save everything. A true collector understands that if he truly believes something should be saved for future generations it is better to either cut his losses pass the item(s) to another who can care for said item(s)....blah blah blah |
Hey, it's unlocked today.
Kind of like when you were practically giving away ghia parts, but nobody wanted to spend the money to ship stuff? So in the end, you just had to take trailers away full of cars and parts. Sounds like what should have been happening all along there.
So do we have any new pics of it cleaned up yet? _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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coad Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7552
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's D-Day and I assume that whatever was destined to happen has happened by now. So it's open again so we can get a report.
I'm sure it'll go off the rails and get locked again in no time. |
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Sunray Bugs Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 40 Location: FL
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:02 am Post subject: |
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joe56vw wrote: |
Sunray Bugs wrote: |
As I explained before, this is not about Corky's collection. It is about a business (a salvage yard) that is being forced to clean up scrap metal that is within view of the highway. |
sounds like the same thing to me and btw quit posting those long post i'm sure i'm not the only one who stops reading them after the first 3 or 4 sentences |
Well... no, it's not the same thing. There were parts cars there that had been picked over for years that originally came from defunct yards in Iowa and Georgia. Most of those cars were in advanced stages of decay due to salt roads when we got them way back in the early 1990's. These parts cars were what the county originally took issue with. Problem is, most of the county officials wouldn't know the difference between a parts car or a restorable car. And they could care less if it is a collectible. If it isn't licensed or running, then to many of these folks it must be junk and has no right on the planet. That is why we are now encouraging people to get involved in some way to help protect our hobby from unfair laws and invasive legislation. _________________ Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Sunray Bugs wrote: |
joe56vw wrote: |
Sunray Bugs wrote: |
As I explained before, this is not about Corky's collection. It is about a business (a salvage yard) that is being forced to clean up scrap metal that is within view of the highway. |
sounds like the same thing to me and btw quit posting those long post i'm sure i'm not the only one who stops reading them after the first 3 or 4 sentences |
Well... no, it's not the same thing. There were parts cars there that had been picked over for years that originally came from defunct yards in Iowa and Georgia. Most of those cars were in advanced stages of decay due to salt roads when we got them way back in the early 1990's. These parts cars were what the county originally took issue with. Problem is, most of the county officials wouldn't know the difference between a parts car or a restorable car. And they could care less if it is a collectible. If it isn't licensed or running, then to many of these folks it must be junk and has no right on the planet. That is why we are now encouraging people to get involved in some way to help protect our hobby from unfair laws and invasive legislation. |
Ummmm. Dude. Just a point of order: It's not "the hobby" they're after. It's the fact that your "hobby" or your "collection" or however you want to sugar coat it, is an eyesore and a zoning violation. Likely, they've been telling you this for years, and you've been ignoring or evading it for years.
So, what happened? Did they clean it up? _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Sunray Bugs Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 40 Location: FL
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Tram wrote: |
So, what happened? Did they clean it up? |
A number of VW enthusiasts and loyal customers dedicated their time and pitched in to help save as much as could be saved. A number of people offered up their own trucks and trailers and worked all day long several days in a row to help clear the property of a number of good rebuildable cars. Some of the enthusiasts that helped were given truckloads of parts while others were given cars or buses as a reward for their efforts. Others, like friends and family members simply donated their time to help get the job done. A fair number of vehicles changed hands over the past few days as well. Some loyal customers were even able to purchase vehicles with a few hundred bucks down and an agreement to pay Corky the balance whenever they could.
Approximately 180 junk cars were crushed by Foster's, the salvage company who had contracted with Sunray Bugs to purchase the remaining salvage cars and scrap metal from Corky. There are still several hundred cars to be scrapped and the company has been given some additional time to get the remaining cars and scrap metal removed.
They had a court hearing later in the day where the county's agent T&J Salvage was authorized to clear the area just south of the main building and approximately 9 dump truck loads of scrap, a small number of junk cars, and a lot of tires and other debris was hauled away. This confiscation of property yielded them little of value this time around and likely ate into their profits a bit.
A lot more happened, but will have to post more info later as this is getting long and from what I understand people hate reading more then 3-4 sentences. _________________ Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page!
Last edited by Sunray Bugs on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CLASSIC CAR GUY Transport and Title Guru
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 1608 Location: Phoenix AZ, but originally from Long Island NY
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I'm sure it'll go off the rails and get locked again in no time |
you know it will,,,, _________________ (0\!/0)
58' Rag'
60' Type 1
61' Type 1
62' Type 1
64' Type 1
66' Type 1
66' Vert'
67' Type 1
"every one wants to reinvent the wheel, but nobody knows how to make it round"
Vintage Volkswagen Sales and Service as well as Classics and Muslcecars all located here in Phoenix Arizona at www.rpmotorcars.com |
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GMByers Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2008 Posts: 642 Location: Retired in NW PA
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:45 am Post subject: |
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Sunray Bugs wrote: |
gray areas....the business is licensed by the county as an automotive repair facility.......licensed for vehicle storage..... dealers license...right to buy and sell cars.....it is left up to attorneys and judges to interpret the meaning of these laws. |
So, is that why you keep insisting that all of the cars are part of a collection; because there, apparently, was no business license to operate a salvage yard? Unless you inadvertently omitted the license to operate a salvage yard, I would think it wouldn't require attorneys or judges to interpret whether or not a business license was issued to operate a salvage yard. Wouldn't a quick check of county records reveal such licenses? Is that where the "gray area" come in to play?
I hope the county heard my plea to save the Vanagons. _________________ And then there were two...downsized to 83 Doka &
74 Thing. |
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Sunray Bugs Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 40 Location: FL
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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GMByers wrote: |
Sunray Bugs wrote: |
gray areas....the business is licensed by the county as an automotive repair facility.......licensed for vehicle storage..... dealers license...right to buy and sell cars.....it is left up to attorneys and judges to interpret the meaning of these laws. |
So, is that why you keep insisting that all of the cars are part of a collection; because there, apparently, was no business license to operate a salvage yard? Unless you inadvertently omitted the license to operate a salvage yard, I would think it wouldn't require attorneys or judges to interpret whether or not a business license was issued to operate a salvage yard. Wouldn't a quick check of county records reveal such licenses? Is that where the "gray area" come in to play?
I hope the county heard my plea to save the Vanagons. |
Well the business was licensed to sell "new and used parts". It is zoned correctly for automotive repair and it is ok as a car lot. I haven't really had a chance to read all of the legalese, but when everything calms down, maybe I can get around to trying to better understand the details regarding the zoning language, etc.
The area around Sunray is mixed industrial use with everything from auto repair and body shops to trucking companies, heavy equipment repair shops, even other salvage yards, storage lots, mini storage warehouses, etc. The business is not really THAT out of place to the casual observer. It's not like it's in an area of nice homes or in the middle of a nice part of the city or anything like that. It's outside of town kind of in the middle of nowhere.
The gray area I was talking about was that a reasonable person would assume that an auto repair facility will have inoperable cars on the premises because after all, that is usually why you bring a car in for repair... because it is inoperable. But the county tried to make the case that cars had to be operable to be on the property. Does not make sense really in my opinion. I can go into a lot more detail because it really gets more complicated but this is long already, so I better stop here. _________________ Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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blankmange Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004 Posts: 11498 Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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so Corky got an extension to finish cleaning up the property, while Sunray Bugs still can't figure out how to explain to us why the county has stepped in and forced Corky's hand...
is the grey area whether or not it was licensed to operate as a salvage yard? there's been a vacillation as to whether or not it was supposed to be a business, but now Sunray Bugs has admitted that they have no idea what's going on...
Sunray Bugs wrote: |
Well the business was licensed to sell "new and used parts". It is zoned correctly for automotive repair and it is ok as a car lot. I haven't really had a chance to read all of the legalese, but when everything calms down, maybe I can get around to trying to better understand the details regarding the zoning language, etc.
The area around Sunray is mixed industrial use with everything from auto repair and body shops to trucking companies, heavy equipment repair shops, even other salvage yards, storage lots, mini storage warehouses, etc. The business is not really THAT out of place to the casual observer. It's not like it's in an area of nice homes or in the middle of a nice part of the city or anything like that. It's outside of town kind of in the middle of nowhere.
The gray area I was talking about was that a reasonable person would assume that an auto repair facility will have inoperable cars on the premises because after all, that is usually why you bring a car in for repair... because it is inoperable. But the county tried to make the case that cars had to be operable to be on the property. Does not make sense really in my opinion. I can go into a lot more detail because it really gets more complicated but this is long already, so I better stop here. |
_________________ póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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Sunray Bugs Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 40 Location: FL
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Sunray Bugs"]
GMByers wrote: |
So, is that why you keep insisting that all of the cars are part of a collection; because there, apparently, was no business license to operate a salvage yard? Unless you inadvertently omitted the license to operate a salvage yard, I would think it wouldn't require attorneys or judges to interpret whether or not a business license was issued to operate a salvage yard. Wouldn't a quick check of county records reveal such licenses? Is that where the "gray area" come in to play? |
The business licenses can sometimes be a bit generic in terminology. It's not licensing, but the zoning that tripped us up. This particular piece of property is in a rural area and has been a repair shop for cars or heavy trucks/18 wheelers for decades. It has always had dead vehicles or trucks and trailers sitting all around it for as long as I can remember. Years and years ago, I think it was even a landfill. No-one ever thought about the use not being correct. I mean we operated there for 20 years or more in plain sight with absolutely no problem. Then after 22 years, all of the sudden we get notified that it is not zoned for what we are doing... surprising really. Other salvage yards in the area were "grandfathered in" and allowed to continue operating, but I think there was a technicality where we missed that rule by about 6 months. We had initally held out hope that they would "grandfather" us in as well because it is impossible to clean up over 20 years worth of accumulation in such a very short time period unless you just ruthlessly scrap everything without regard to "parts value." Our hope was that they would work with us to allow us the time necessary to do it correctly. But the bottom line is they wanted us OUT and they could care less at what cost. _________________ Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Sunray Bugs wrote: |
Tram wrote: |
So, what happened? Did they clean it up? |
A number of VW enthusiasts and loyal customers dedicated their time and pitched in to help save as much as could be saved. A number of people offered up their own trucks and trailers and worked all day long several days in a row to help clear the property of a number of good rebuildable cars. Some of the enthusiasts that helped were given truckloads of parts while others were given cars or buses as a reward for their efforts. Others, like friends and family members simply donated their time to help get the job done. A fair number of vehicles changed hands over the past few days as well. Some loyal customers were even able to purchase vehicles with a few hundred bucks down and an agreement to pay Corky the balance whenever they could.
Approximately 180 junk cars were crushed by Foster's, the salvage company who had contracted with Sunray Bugs to purchase the remaining salvage cars and scrap metal from Corky. There are still several hundred cars to be scrapped and the company has been given some additional time to get the remaining cars and scrap metal removed.
They had a court hearing later in the day where the county's agent T&J Salvage was authorized to clear the area just south of the main building and approximately 9 dump truck loads of scrap, a small number of junk cars, and a lot of tires and other debris was hauled away. This confiscation of property yielded them little of value this time around and likely ate into their profits a bit.
A lot more happened, but will have to post more info later as this is getting long and from what I understand people hate reading more then 3-4 sentences. |
Really.
Are you seriously that naive? They're not working for the county on commission, there, Jethro. And the county will pass the bill on to someone... You guys better get busy selling stuff so you can avoid the inevitable tax lien... _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Sunray Bugs wrote: |
GMByers wrote: |
Sunray Bugs wrote: |
gray areas....the business is licensed by the county as an automotive repair facility.......licensed for vehicle storage..... dealers license...right to buy and sell cars.....it is left up to attorneys and judges to interpret the meaning of these laws. |
So, is that why you keep insisting that all of the cars are part of a collection; because there, apparently, was no business license to operate a salvage yard? Unless you inadvertently omitted the license to operate a salvage yard, I would think it wouldn't require attorneys or judges to interpret whether or not a business license was issued to operate a salvage yard. Wouldn't a quick check of county records reveal such licenses? Is that where the "gray area" come in to play?
I hope the county heard my plea to save the Vanagons. |
Well the business was licensed to sell "new and used parts". It is zoned correctly for automotive repair and it is ok as a car lot. I haven't really had a chance to read all of the legalese, but when everything calms down, maybe I can get around to trying to better understand the details regarding the zoning language, etc.
The area around Sunray is mixed industrial use with everything from auto repair and body shops to trucking companies, heavy equipment repair shops, even other salvage yards, storage lots, mini storage warehouses, etc. The business is not really THAT out of place to the casual observer. It's not like it's in an area of nice homes or in the middle of a nice part of the city or anything like that. It's outside of town kind of in the middle of nowhere.
The gray area I was talking about was that a reasonable person would assume that an auto repair facility will have inoperable cars on the premises because after all, that is usually why you bring a car in for repair... because it is inoperable. But the county tried to make the case that cars had to be operable to be on the property. Does not make sense really in my opinion. I can go into a lot more detail because it really gets more complicated but this is long already, so I better stop here. |
Wowie.
You really, seriously don't see the difference between licensed, tagged, and registered cars brought in for repair and acre after acre of long unlicensed, partially disassembled, rusting hulks, most of which will never run again and are only doubtfully even good as donors- if you'd ever sell them? _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Sunray Bugs wrote: |
GMByers wrote: |
Sunray Bugs wrote: |
gray areas....the business is licensed by the county as an automotive repair facility.......licensed for vehicle storage..... dealers license...right to buy and sell cars.....it is left up to attorneys and judges to interpret the meaning of these laws. |
So, is that why you keep insisting that all of the cars are part of a collection; because there, apparently, was no business license to operate a salvage yard? Unless you inadvertently omitted the license to operate a salvage yard, I would think it wouldn't require attorneys or judges to interpret whether or not a business license was issued to operate a salvage yard. Wouldn't a quick check of county records reveal such licenses? Is that where the "gray area" come in to play?
I hope the county heard my plea to save the Vanagons. |
Well the business was licensed to sell "new and used parts". It is zoned correctly for automotive repair and it is ok as a car lot. I haven't really had a chance to read all of the legalese, but when everything calms down, maybe I can get around to trying to better understand the details regarding the zoning language, etc.
The area around Sunray is mixed industrial use with everything from auto repair and body shops to trucking companies, heavy equipment repair shops, even other salvage yards, storage lots, mini storage warehouses, etc. The business is not really THAT out of place to the casual observer. It's not like it's in an area of nice homes or in the middle of a nice part of the city or anything like that. It's outside of town kind of in the middle of nowhere.
The gray area I was talking about was that a reasonable person would assume that an auto repair facility will have inoperable cars on the premises because after all, that is usually why you bring a car in for repair... because it is inoperable. But the county tried to make the case that cars had to be operable to be on the property. Does not make sense really in my opinion. I can go into a lot more detail because it really gets more complicated but this is long already, so I better stop here. |
Ummmmm, yeah, OK. That explains it all, clear as a bell. The big, bad county... How DARE The Man try to enforce laws you can't be bothered to read or try to comprehend. Thanks for playing! _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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blankmange Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004 Posts: 11498 Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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as you've pointed out, Tram, how unfortunate that SB here hasn't taken the time to even read why all of this is going on....
one point of curiosity: when Corky found out that his lot wasn't going to be grandfathered in for the zoning of whatever was going on there, why weren't steps taken then to correct the issue and clean up the joint?
that sure would have saved a lot of BS and such by SB later on.... _________________ póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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