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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
Are you seriously that naive? They're not working for the county on commission, there, Jethro. And the county will pass the bill on to someone... You guys better get busy selling stuff so you can avoid the inevitable tax lien... |
Well facts are that there are a variety of ways that these things can be arranged. In this particular case, it is the proceeds from the scrap metal that the county's agent T&J salvage seized that will pay the cleanup costs on the southern portion of the property.They signed an agreement to that affect.
We had started the cleanup on that side of the yard almost a year ago and we already had scrapped a large number of vehicles from that portion of the property. I would estimate somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 cars or more were crushed on the southern side before any of the most recent troubles began. We are cleaning up the balance of the property (the Northern half) ourselves with our own contractor.
If you remember, I told the story about the 180 cars that we staged on the vacant lot next to ours to make room for OUR crusher to come in right? Then someone representing themselves as code enforcement contacted our neighbor with threats of fines and the cost of cleanup. Scared the crap out of our neighbor, so he authorized the county agent to clean it up immediately. So the timeline on this particular portion of cleanup was ZERO, ZIP, NADA, No TIME and NO WARNING! It was "we have taken this, it is ours now!" A mis-use of governmental power to invoke FEAR in an innocent land owner for the PROFIT of the county's agent!
You think that was ethical and fair? It's the proceeds from the scrap metal that the county's agent was after. It almost worked, but in the end, after our attorney calmed our neighbor down and informed him of his rights as a property owner, he gave us the time we needed and we got our cars back. Those cars were crushed this afternoon by our contractor.
Last edited by Sunray Bugs on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:36 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
Wowie.  
You really, seriously don't see the difference between licensed, tagged, and registered cars brought in for repair and acre after acre of long unlicensed, partially disassembled, rusting hulks, most of which will never run again and are only doubtfully even good as donors- if you'd ever sell them?
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Well, I can see you don't really want to have a civil discussion and try to understand what I am trying to convey to you. You are more interested with trying to look clever to all of your buddies.
We are talking about two different issues here. I KNOW the difference between licensed, tagged, and registered cars brought in for repair and acre after acre of long unlicensed, partially disassembled, rusting hulks, most of which will never run again and are only doubtfully even good as donors.
What I was trying to point out to you is that the definition in which the county uses to determine this is not always 100% black and white. There is some gray area and my point was that this is why it is dangerous to allow the government to chip away at our indvidual freedoms. And especially to allow them the power to take away a persons personal property and destroy their livelihood in the name of code enforcement when it really all about PROFIT!
_________________
Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page!
Last edited by Sunray Bugs on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:39 am; edited 4 times in total |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Sunray Bugs wrote: |
| And especially to allow them the power to take away a persons personal property and destroy their liveliehoods in the process all in the name of code enforcement. |
livelihood? even after you just said this:
| Quote: |
acre after acre of long unlicensed, partially disassembled, rusting hulks, most of which will never run again and are only doubtfully even good as donors. |
doesn't sound much like a livelihood....
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
Ummmmm, yeah, OK. That explains it all, clear as a bell. The big, bad county... How DARE The Man try to enforce laws you can't be bothered to read or try to comprehend. Thanks for playing! |
My, aren't you the clever one. You really enjoy taking things out of context and twisting people's words around in an effort to impress your friends.
I did not come on here to have a debate over zoning laws. We have attorneys to handle things of that nature. My offer was to share some information about some of the events that have occurred since this situation began, explain what is going on with the yard and what the plans are for some of the vehicles, etc.
I read this comment from a guy on another site and personally, I liked what he had to say.
| Quote: |
Norm Murdock says:
December 14, 2011 at 10:19 pm You don’t have any rights to your neighbor’s property, Ron. Our system of government and our constitution were founded on this principle: The rights of the INDIVIDUAL are to be protected from the MAJORITY. You are reflecting the current “popular” view that a mob can overrule the rights of an individual citizen (a la the infamous “Kelo Decision”). But that is not what this country was founded on. In both criminal law and civil law, the USA has traditionally sided with the RIGHTS of the INDIVIDUAL, and not with the popular or the majority. Whether it’s free speech, gun rights, standard for conviction of beyond a reasonable doubt, rules of evidence against hearsay, or a hundred other things in the constitution, this country has championed INDIVIDUAL rights. Guess what, Ron? Some cities don’t even have a zoning code (Houston, TX, for example). And it’s the right of a landowner to what he wishes with his land (as long as he doesn’t physically harm another person of course, so no pollution for example). If a landfill is run in accordance to environmental laws, Hey! SOMEBODY will be living next to it! Somebody lives near every landfill in this country. So what. Big deal. You don’t like the landfill, or junkyard, then do what I said: Move! Or tender an offer to buy him out! That’s the American way. Not using the tyranny of majority rule to TAKE AWAY somebody else’s property, which became trendy only in the last half century when the SCOTUS decided to legislate from the bench. |
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
_________________
Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| GMByers wrote: |
| Sunray Bugs wrote: |
| gray areas....the business is licensed by the county as an automotive repair facility.......licensed for vehicle storage..... dealers license...right to buy and sell cars.....it is left up to attorneys and judges to interpret the meaning of these laws. |
So, is that why you keep insisting that all of the cars are part of a collection... |
No. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. There were all kinds of cars on the property. There were cars that were there for repairs, cars that were being completely restored for customers, cars for sale as daily drivers and project cars. There were also some of the cars that were part of Corky's private collection.
What I was trying to get across was that we were trying to liquidate parts cars and project cars. When all of this began, we needed to remove the customers cars and Corky's collection (cars that were not for sale) to get them out of the way of the scrapping efforts.
People who came to take part in the liquidation became confused when they saw these (not for sale) cars that were in a staging area to be removed from the property. They mistakenly thought those cars were the cars we were liquidating.
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Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Sunray Bugs wrote: |
I read this comment from a guy on another site and personally, I liked what he had to say.
| Quote: |
Norm Murdock says:
December 14, 2011 at 10:19 pm You don’t have any rights to your neighbor’s property, Ron. Our system of government and our constitution were founded on this principle: The rights of the INDIVIDUAL are to be protected from the MAJORITY. You are reflecting the current “popular” view that a mob can overrule the rights of an individual citizen (a la the infamous “Kelo Decision”). But that is not what this country was founded on. In both criminal law and civil law, the USA has traditionally sided with the RIGHTS of the INDIVIDUAL, and not with the popular or the majority. Whether it’s free speech, gun rights, standard for conviction of beyond a reasonable doubt, rules of evidence against hearsay, or a hundred other things in the constitution, this country has championed INDIVIDUAL rights. Guess what, Ron? Some cities don’t even have a zoning code (Houston, TX, for example). And it’s the right of a landowner to what he wishes with his land (as long as he doesn’t physically harm another person of course, so no pollution for example). If a landfill is run in accordance to environmental laws, Hey! SOMEBODY will be living next to it! Somebody lives near every landfill in this country. So what. Big deal. You don’t like the landfill, or junkyard, then do what I said: Move! Or tender an offer to buy him out! That’s the American way. Not using the tyranny of majority rule to TAKE AWAY somebody else’s property, which became trendy only in the last half century when the SCOTUS decided to legislate from the bench. |
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. |
agreeing to disagree.... gotcha..... still looking for what the above quote has to do with a zoning violation in Florida....
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: |
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People who throw down the Constitution card and scream about their "rights" are the ones who fail to understand that living in a free society does not mean one does not have a civic responsibility.
It appears to have been successfully pointed out that the owner of the property in question did not comply with local zoning laws, did not communicate with neighbors, and did not seek any type of legal representation in a timely manner in order to bring the situation under control.
Bottom line: Stop blaming everyone else who understands the big picture for your shortcomings and failures.
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West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)
Last edited by Gary on Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| blankmange wrote: |
as you've pointed out, Tram, how unfortunate that SB here hasn't taken the time to even read why all of this is going on....
one point of curiosity: when Corky found out that his lot wasn't going to be grandfathered in for the zoning of whatever was going on there, why weren't steps taken then to correct the issue and clean up the joint?
that sure would have saved a lot of BS and such by SB later on.... |
As I have stated before. Steps WERE taken to comply. We just were not able to meet the deadlines because the time period alotted was very aggressive and we were trying to do this in an organized and methodical manner while also running day to day operations, handling parts, service, repair, restorations, mail order sales, etc.
Several hundred cars were crushed and sold for scrap metal in at least two massive crushing sessions over the past year where they had mobile crushers come to the site. They then began disassembling the VW's in an effort to save the valuable parts and they had giant dumpsters brought onto the property and were filling the dumpsters with the scrap metal to be recycled.
We had also contacted a variety of other VW parts companies and import/export companies to see if we could wholesale bulk lots of parts for rebuilders, etc. We sold a fairly large number of cores to rebuilders over this time period as well. But time ran out... and we were hoping that they would see that progress was being made and they would work with us to allow more time for us to do the job. But unfortunately, that did not happen.
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Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Sunray Bugs wrote: |
| blankmange wrote: |
as you've pointed out, Tram, how unfortunate that SB here hasn't taken the time to even read why all of this is going on....
one point of curiosity: when Corky found out that his lot wasn't going to be grandfathered in for the zoning of whatever was going on there, why weren't steps taken then to correct the issue and clean up the joint?
that sure would have saved a lot of BS and such by SB later on.... |
As I have stated before. Steps WERE taken to comply. We just were not able to meet the deadlines because the time period alotted was very aggressive and we were trying to do this in an organized and methodical manner while also running day to day operations, handling parts, service, repair, restorations, mail order sales, etc.
Several hundred cars were crushed and sold for scrap metal in at least two massive crushing sessions over the past year where they had mobile crushers come to the site. They then began disassembling the VW's in an effort to save the valuable parts and they had giant dumpsters brought onto the property and were filling the dumpsters with the scrap metal to be recycled.
We had also contacted a variety of other VW parts companies and import/export companies to see if we could wholesale bulk lots of parts for rebuilders, etc. We sold a fairly large number of cores to rebuilders over this time period as well. But time ran out... and we were hoping that they would see that progress was being made and they would work with us to allow more time for us to do the job. But unfortunately, that did not happen. |
how aggressive was the timeline again?
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| blankmange wrote: |
| Sunray Bugs wrote: |
I read this comment from a guy on another site and personally, I liked what he had to say.
| Quote: |
Norm Murdock says:
December 14, 2011 at 10:19 pm You don’t have any rights to your neighbor’s property, Ron. Our system of government and our constitution were founded on this principle: The rights of the INDIVIDUAL are to be protected from the MAJORITY. You are reflecting the current “popular” view that a mob can overrule the rights of an individual citizen (a la the infamous “Kelo Decision”). But that is not what this country was founded on. In both criminal law and civil law, the USA has traditionally sided with the RIGHTS of the INDIVIDUAL, and not with the popular or the majority. Whether it’s free speech, gun rights, standard for conviction of beyond a reasonable doubt, rules of evidence against hearsay, or a hundred other things in the constitution, this country has championed INDIVIDUAL rights. Guess what, Ron? Some cities don’t even have a zoning code (Houston, TX, for example). And it’s the right of a landowner to what he wishes with his land (as long as he doesn’t physically harm another person of course, so no pollution for example). If a landfill is run in accordance to environmental laws, Hey! SOMEBODY will be living next to it! Somebody lives near every landfill in this country. So what. Big deal. You don’t like the landfill, or junkyard, then do what I said: Move! Or tender an offer to buy him out! That’s the American way. Not using the tyranny of majority rule to TAKE AWAY somebody else’s property, which became trendy only in the last half century when the SCOTUS decided to legislate from the bench. |
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. |
agreeing to disagree.... gotcha..... still looking for what the above quote has to do with a zoning violation in Florida.... |
Well, then let's move to a different subject. We have beat this horse to death and obviously we do not see eye to eye on it. That's OK. I don't expect everyone to agree. Just saying their are differing views. Let's bury this and move on to more productive discussion. I have to get ready for work now, so I'll catch you later. Nice chatting with you.
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Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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Harveybacon
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2011
Posts: 138
Location: Gainesville, FL
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Foxx
Uncle Meat
Joined: August 27, 2001
Posts: 4897
Location: at the computer,.......DUH!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Harveybacon wrote: |
| I would like to see some pics and maybe a video from what is left over. Once you start to catalog and "sell" some of the left over stuff, please let us know. Hopefully they will not have charges "taxed" into them for all the cleanup that has been done. I would still love to come get some parts, but want to know how many items are left to sift through. And pics speak a THOUSAND words. |
amen,.. again,. as Coad said
| coad wrote: |
I don't care one way or the other about this in any real sense--I'm 2000 miles away, and nothing I've seen so far makes me think there's anything there I need to go rescue.
That said. I am puzzled about the way you're handling this. If this is really Zero Hour, and you really, truly, want to save the remaining cars, then why isn't there an accurate list of what's available? Why isn't everything clearly priced (You're still at the bullshit "make offer" stage, and it seems like we're past the point where we have time to play that game), and why on Earth is this the only ad you're running?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1231703
The ads are free for christsakes. Get off your ass, grab a camera, go take some photos, and do a dozen ads with photos and prices and details instead of sitting here in the forums whining about it. Show us you're serious about actually liquidating this stuff instead of having a pointless debate on an internet forum. In the time you've wasted here you could have had the whole inventory advertised in the classified section.
Until you do that, I think all this drama is just you asking the world to feel sorry for you. |
whats stopping you from getting off your ass and getting some NEW pics?
A list of what you HAVE.
i'm not driving 800 miles for some vague bullshit of what you MIGHT have and what you MIGHT sell and for what you MIGHT ask for it.
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Frank
OG JHC
59 panel
Sarcasm is the body's natural defense against stupidity. i seem to use a lot. |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Seems to me you squandered a profitable business opportunity.
The way your 'business' handled its stock it appears you were too lazy and ignorant to realize the opportunity you had.if you had approached a bank with a realistic business plan a loan could have been secured to begin compliance work,the county would have worked with you had you tried to comply..its in the countys interest that your business create tax revenue.
From the pictures you posted your business is a blight and a ecological hazard,perhaps in the interest of profit you helped some people restore some cars,but in the big picture you made us all look bad. |
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Herbie3Rivers
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2001
Posts: 1271
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Sunray Bugs wrote: |
If you remember, I told the story about the 180 cars that we staged on the vacant lot next to ours to make room for OUR crusher to come in right? Then someone representing themselves as code enforcement contacted our neighbor with threats of fines and the cost of cleanup. Scared the crap out of our neighbor, so he authorized the county agent to clean it up immediately. You think that was ethical? Someone crossed an ethical line in my opinion. It's the proceeds from the scrap metal that these guys were after. It almost worked, but in the end, after our attorney calmed our neighbor down and informed him of his rights as a property owner, he gave us the time we needed and we got our cars back. Those cars were crushed this afternoon by our contractor.
That's just not right in my opinion. Do you think that is fair and ethical? |
I don't think someone just wakes up one morning and says I feel like impersonating a code enforcement officer.
Seriously, I have almost 20 years experience within the auto industry and an MBA in relation to the auto industry. And there is nothing. NOTHING you have said that makes any sense yet.
Like I said before, all this reads like someone who's related to Corky, not an employee, that's trying to defend his honor more than anything and can't remove themselves from the situation to see it from the other side.
Seriously, if you know nothing about the situation, who's in charge of cleaning up what, who's getting paid for this or that, let alone the legality of what's going on. Just admit that you can't answer the questions and move on. All you're doing is digging yourself deeper and deeper.
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Yeah I like Herbie AND New Beetles. Got a problem with it? Tough.
2010 New Beetle Final Edition
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1959 Original Herbie #6
1956 Oval
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GMByers
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2008
Posts: 642
Location: Retired in NW PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Foxx,
Since you're one of the moderators on thesamba, I'm surprised at your post. Posts like that is what seemed to have gotten this thread locked a couple of times. Far be it for me to play thesamba etiquette patrol...just saying...you're pouring fuel on the fire.
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And then there were two...downsized to 83 Doka &
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notchback
Insensitive Jerk
Joined: December 16, 2003
Posts: 7024
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| GMByers wrote: |
Foxx,
Since you're one of the moderators on thesamba, I'm surprised at your post. Posts like that is what seemed to have gotten this thread locked a couple of times. Far be it for me to play thesamba etiquette patrol...just saying...you're pouring fuel on the fire. |
It's quite surprising how many thin skinned people there are here. Oh, how I long for The Rants of Yore. 
_________________
| zeen wrote: |
| Arguing with johnnypan is like mud-wrestling a pig. After a while you realize he just enjoys playing in the mud, winning the contest is not the point. |
FU#3 |
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Ian
Samba Moderator
Joined: August 28, 2002
Posts: 4930
Location: 713
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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i think i got this pretty simple:
vw junkyard sells vw's and parts to make living,
vw junkyard doesn't sell parts or cars for "reasonable" amounts, instead hoards parts and cars for "one day projects"
vw junkyard gets shutdown by "code enforcement"
vw junkyard doesn't have ads on vw website where vw's sell worldwide...local markets are SMALL
I would recommend taking 3-4 pics of each car and making individual ads, you literally never know when someone will send you the money for a car they want, and drive over 2000 miles to get it....
if you can't keep it, SELL it, duh
P.S. hopefully everyone remembers WILSON'S, that used to be my local yard, luckily WILSON'S was not notorious for not selling things, quite the opposite, everything was for sale!!!
and if you think you were the biggest VW yard ever, you're wrong
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All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
IN LOVING MEMORY OF ROB CRESS 1968-2012 |
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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| GMByers wrote: |
Foxx,
Since you're one of the moderators on thesamba, I'm surprised at your post. Posts like that is what seemed to have gotten this thread locked a couple of times. Far be it for me to play thesamba etiquette patrol...just saying...you're pouring fuel on the fire. |
I would have to agree with you there. This has been a very unfriendly thread. Very disappointing
MODERATOR:
1.) a person given special power to enforce the rules on an internet forum, newsgroup or blog
2.) An arbitrator or mediator.
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Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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Lobotomy
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2010
Posts: 517
Location: Traverse City, MI
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Okay, can someone clarify whether or not Sunray is out of business for good?
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Vehicles I have:
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Sunray Bugs
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: |
I would recommend taking 3-4 pics of each car and making individual ads, you literally never know when someone will send you the money for a car they want, and drive over 2000 miles to get it....
if you can't keep it, SELL it, duh
and if you think you were the biggest VW yard ever, you're wrong |
Thanks for the recommendation. At the moment we are continuing to crush the junk cars, recycle the scrap and clear the debris. The cataloging, photographing of cars and advertising them for sale will be phase 2. We cannot do both. We have to wait until the dust settles, so please be patient. It will happen soon.
We never claimed to be the biggest VW yard EVER. Back in the day there were others bigger. Don't forget about Adams VW down in South Florida. They were pretty big back in the day as well. We were just mentioning that this yard was one of the biggest LEFT in the area.
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Sunray Bugs
16016 US Hwy 301
Dade City, FL 33525
(352) 521-5660
For information FREE of The Dramba, please visit our Facebook page! |
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