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Very slow cranking
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joeinindy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: Very slow cranking Reply with quote

I searched Samba and found some info but still need some advice before I start throwing money at parts.
It is 1965 with 12v , looks to be a dual port 1600? Most times the starter will barley turn the motor over, every now and then it kicks in and has plenty of power. At times the starter will not engauge, but would this cause the slow crank if the starter is going bad?
I have replaced the battery, neg. ground cable, ck'd the ground strap on the trans and checked the connections to the battery and the connections on the starter.
My first thought was voltage drop, but being intermittant does not add up.
Just hate to buy a new starter if that's not the issue. Any help ?
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Hammarlund
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My first thought was voltage drop, but being intermittant does not add up.


That is a very dangerous assumption. There is no reason why a bad connection cannot be intermittent; if fact they often are!

Make meauserments when the problem is occuring. You will almost certainly find your voltage drop.

Don't forget to check for voltage drops across ground connections. The next time the problem is occuring, put the positive probe of your voltmeter on the negative post of the battery, and ground the negative probe of the voltmeter on the case of the starter. Then, have somebody crank while you watch the meter for a voltage drop. In theory, your are comparing the potential of two bonded, grounded points, so if the system is good there should be no voltage between them. If you see significant voltage, you have a ground problem somewhere.
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Boom
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

take off your starter and smell it, does it smell burnt?
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joeinindy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update, tried a Bosch WR1 hard start relay, several said it would cure the problem, no luck. Still the same slow cranking. The one thing I've noticed is the positive lead off the battery is getting hot when I'm trying to start. Tried checking for voltage but all seems good as far as I can tell.
I did not pull the starter but can't get any whiff of smell with it on. Motor runs fine after it starts. Any help ??
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HRVW
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea Starter bushing. Replace it before you burn up the starter.
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joeinindy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'll replace the bushing. Any tricks I should know before I get started?
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Reaper
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's probably the bushing. You can replace the bushing, and be good until the shafts wallows it out again(usually a few years at least). Or just replace it with an "autostick" starter. They are self supporting, and need no bushing.
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mnakandala
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HRVW wrote:
Idea Starter bushing. Replace it before you burn up the starter.


X2 and check if the armature is bent if yes, probably it will damage the field coils
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joeinindy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replaced the starter with an autostick. First couple of times it started and turned the motor over fine ,then it started to make a grind noise as if the teeth were not engaging fully. Now it is dead. I'm wondering if I got a bad starter or?????
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideally, if you can load test a fully charged battery (12.5v) with a tester that incorporates a volt meter, an ammeter, and a carbon pile and then if the battery will hold a load see if the starter draw will or will not drop the battery voltage below 9.6v.
The voltage drop test is sooooo important on the positive as well as the ground circuit. I have recently worked on a restored 6v type 1 that was painted and found areas where the starter bolted to the trans that interfered with the ground circuit path back to the battery. That coupled with an "off shore" rebuilt starter had me fooled for awhile. So always check where ground bolts to body, ground from pan to trans, and starter mounting is very clean. I wire wheeled all those points with drill and wire cup and had immense improvements.
Hope this helps. Bill.
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joeinindy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a bad starter from autozone, took it back and it tested bad. Hope the next one is good.
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HRVW
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh? OP. You said 65 with a 12V. Was that 12V at the Gen and battery. What about the flywheel...was it a 6V or a 12V. Trying to start a 6V flywheel with a 12V starter will kill it for sure.

Rare for a 12V auto SR17x starter to be bad...then again if it was a unknown rebuilder hard to say.

Bosch rebuilt are the only way to fly.

Steve
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joeinindy wrote:
I got a bad starter from autozone, took it back and it tested bad. Hope the next one is good.


I am guilty of the same M.O. I was working on a 6v type 1 and the car had symptoms of a bad starter. Gave owner option of Bosch for $125 or O'Reilly's for $45. I suggested the O'Reilly to try. Worked ok for a week or two and new different symptoms started to appear. I was chasing everything else and it came back to the O'Reilly starter. Installed original starter (as I bought back core $4) and went over every ground and had batt charged up to 6.4v and its been ok every since. Bill
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joeinindy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it should be a 12v flywheel, the motor is a dual port, battery ect is 12v. If it is a 6v flywheel what should I see, hear or ? when using the autostick starter? Thanks everyone for all the info and advice. Like anything the first times the hardest.
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HRVW
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile DP engine will definetly have a 12V flywheel. The automatic SR17X starter is the way to go.
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When starter drive is not matched to the ring gear, the noise is very noticeable and will begin to damage parts. The SR17X is indeed a nice starter but would be pricey without a core.
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joeinindy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please explaing 'not matching up to the ring gear" and the noise. Thanks
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