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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I have both an original '73 Thing and a Baja with Thing spindles on it.
Thing spindles increase the width on the front, not the drums. In fact, the Thing front drum carries the same Beetle part number of 131 405 615 A.
The front torsion leaves are different for a Thing, three leaves are thicker and one thinner giving it a higher spring rate (stiffer).
Ghia 4 lug rotors will fit with a bolt on calliper bracket. Also, AC Industries carries a wide 5 disc brake kit that will bolt onto the Thing spindle and not increase the wheel track. I have the AC Industries wide 5 kit on my Thing.
The Thing beam is a Beetle beam with strengthening plates added to strengthen the shock tower and add a plate to provide horizontal strength to the outside tubes braced back to the pan.
I measured between 2 3/4 " to 2 7/8" lift from a beetle spindle to a Thing spindle.
The Thing specific ball joints do offer slightly more travel, but not made to go over the stock travel distance. They are much heavier and require a special concentric for the top ball joint.
The tie rod on both the Beetle and Thing spindle are located in the same spot, so bump steer is not effected any more than stock.
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Dave24
Samba Hack Purist
Joined: April 14, 2004
Posts: 7442
Location: Hablamos Ingles, So. Cal.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| dirtkeeper wrote: |
| dirtkeeper wrote: |
| Dave24 wrote: |
| Mexikrainian wrote: |
| Also, do Thing spindles increase the drum to drum width of a complete beam?Or are Thing spindles wider than stock bug spindles? |
Yes, 1" each side. |
Didn't know this one .Is that because of the drum or the spindles/arms? I ask cause i'm using ghia rotors on mine Will i get the inch?
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Anybody know this? I think it may be in the drums cause they seem wider than stock. but dont have any to compare too and my ghia rotors are still on my current front end |
Sorry I didn't reply quickly, but as Joe said above (thanks Joe) it's the spindles that add the width. |
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BearBroth
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 142
Location: San Antonio TX. (just north of Hades)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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You can use Thing spindles with stock bug arms if you flip the lower arm on your stock bug beam? -
Yes, many suggest slightly machining a lip on the arms to allow the BJ to seat "correctly"... personally haven't done it so am not entirely sure. I basically put Thing spindles and lower arms on an otherwise stock bug beam, it all bolted up fine.
I don't know if you guys caught this but it is not the lower arms that get flipped if using Thing spindles on upper/lower Bug arms.
To install the ball joint upside down though, the bug arm does need to be ground down a bit to allow for the lip on the ball joint to seat flat. Taking the arms to a machine shop and having them mill the area is ideal, but it can be achieved with some very carefull grinding in the home garage.
Mine currently has Thing spindles with Bug upper/lower ball joints and arms and I had to take a little off with the grinder, then smooth it with a Dremel sanding disc. Works great.
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"It is possible to store the mind with a million facts and still be entirely uneducated."
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goosey1812
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 9
Location: West Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mal evolent wrote: |
and the Thing spindle is drilled for a speedo cable, unlike aftermarket lift spindles?
edit: yes. it enters at a funky angle and makes a bend inside the axle.
Ghia disc brakes will bolt on to Thing spindles?
no, you will need these:
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/1114/AC405001/
and the inner wheel bearings may be different |
Are these correct adaptor plates to fit disc calipers to 181 spindles? Info on the mooreparts website says that they are for a king/link beam?
Is there any other shops selling adaptor plates?
Thanks
Goosey |
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dirtkeeper
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| goosey1812 wrote: |
| Mal evolent wrote: |
and the Thing spindle is drilled for a speedo cable, unlike aftermarket lift spindles?
edit: yes. it enters at a funky angle and makes a bend inside the axle.
Ghia disc brakes will bolt on to Thing spindles?
no, you will need these:
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/1114/AC405001/
and the inner wheel bearings may be different |
Are these correct adaptor plates to fit disc calipers to 181 spindles? Info on the mooreparts website says that they are for a king/link beam?
Is there any other shops selling adaptor plates?
Thanks
Goosey |
I don't think those are the right ones. I'm nearly positive I got mine from Moore parts but they look differs than those might give them a call |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dirtkeeper wrote: |
| goosey1812 wrote: |
| Mal evolent wrote: |
and the Thing spindle is drilled for a speedo cable, unlike aftermarket lift spindles?
edit: yes. it enters at a funky angle and makes a bend inside the axle.
Ghia disc brakes will bolt on to Thing spindles?
no, you will need these:
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/1114/AC405001/
and the inner wheel bearings may be different |
Are these correct adaptor plates to fit disc calipers to 181 spindles? Info on the mooreparts website says that they are for a king/link beam?
Is there any other shops selling adaptor plates?
Thanks
Goosey |
I don't think those are the right ones. I'm nearly positive I got mine from Moore parts but they look differs than those might give them a call |
These are the ones you need to run discs on the thing spindle:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=986381
The ones linked to are flat and made for a LP spindle. For a BJ spindle, they need to be offset.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Iguana
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 922
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:39 am Post subject: |
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I would try and get som ebetter quaility adapters than the ones above they are weak and I have seen then break,
You want single piece ones which are machines with the grain.
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goosey1812
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 9
Location: West Australia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Iguana wrote: |
I would try and get som ebetter quaility adapters than the ones above they are weak and I have seen then break,
You want single piece ones which are machines with the grain.
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These look the business, any idea where I can get some from? |
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dirtkeeper
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Iguana wrote: |
I would try and get som ebetter quaility adapters than the ones above they are weak and I have seen then break,
You want single piece ones which are machines with the grain.
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Wow!. I have ran the welded mounts for coming on 2 years now on my '73 and have put close to 5000 miles on them. I have a hard time imagining them breaking in a shear application with the welds that are on them. But I have seen people abuse all kinds of parts in the past.
Would love to see pictures of the broken brackets. Was the manufacture of these brackets contacted so he could see why they failed? That is a lot of liable hanging out there.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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tripicana
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: colorado springs
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:44 am Post subject: |
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i too have the welded mounts and they have held up fine for about 500 miles of offroad racing abuse.
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Iguana
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 922
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:43 am Post subject: |
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The ones I have seen fail were not welded they were machined cast like the ones above. They cracked along the sharp machine edge.
I tried to buy some many years ago before I started making the machined ones I posetd a picture of BUT all the ones I could find lacked the quaility I expected in my braking system. I would rather drive slow and stop well than drive fast and hope what I have holds togeather.
I am not saying all cast ones will brake I am saying that all the ones I have seen looked crap quaility and not like something I would be putting on my car to stop me running into someone. I saw a pair a few days ago and they haven't changed, they are still crap.
I would bet if you asked the guys selling them what if any testing had ever been done on them the answer would be ZERO.
Anyway feel free to run them you haven't had any issues so that is cool, asbestos wasn't an issue either for many years and look how that ended up for people  |
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goosey1812
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 9
Location: West Australia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Iguana wrote: |
The ones I have seen fail were not welded they were machined cast like the ones above. They cracked along the sharp machine edge.
I tried to buy some many years ago before I started making the machined ones I posetd a picture of BUT all the ones I could find lacked the quaility I expected in my braking system. I would rather drive slow and stop well than drive fast and hope what I have holds togeather.
I am not saying all cast ones will brake I am saying that all the ones I have seen looked crap quaility and not like something I would be putting on my car to stop me running into someone. I saw a pair a few days ago and they haven't changed, they are still crap.
I would bet if you asked the guys selling them what if any testing had ever been done on them the answer would be ZERO.
Anyway feel free to run them you haven't had any issues so that is cool, asbestos wasn't an issue either for many years and look how that ended up for people |
Ok Iguana are you selling the machined brackets that you posted a picture of? |
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Iguana
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 922
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| goosey1812 wrote: |
Ok Iguana are you selling the machined brackets that you posted a picture of? |
Short answer is yes I do sell them but I would hate for people to presume I am only bagging the others listed here due to that fact.
The reason I had them made is because all the others I found where not up to the task at hand.
Ironically, I am currently out of stock as I am waiting for my CNC Guy to get me the next batch which I am expecting in the next week or so.
Price is $220 AUD including shipping (Worldwide), fitting kit and instructions. |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The reason I had them made is because all the others I found where not up to the task at hand.
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So, you never did try the welded adapters, or did you?
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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goosey1812
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 9
Location: West Australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Iguana wrote: |
| goosey1812 wrote: |
Ok Iguana are you selling the machined brackets that you posted a picture of? |
Short answer is yes I do sell them but I would hate for people to presume I am only bagging the others listed here due to that fact.
The reason I had them made is because all the others I found where not up to the task at hand.
Ironically, I am currently out of stock as I am waiting for my CNC Guy to get me the next batch which I am expecting in the next week or so.
Price is $220 AUD including shipping (Worldwide), fitting kit and instructions. |
Nice, can you let me know when you have some in stock and I will purchase? |
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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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this is an old thread but I figured it'd be better to post here than start a new one.
I'm reading mixed info and currently have thing spindles on my bug with thing ball joints. The guy who pressed the joints have them in wrong, I need to re do them. Gonna make my own press.
The guy pressed the lowers in backwards, I need to pop the old bjs out and press them in the other way so I can swap the driver's and passenger's side. The part the bj goes into is angled and if you install them backwards you don't get any compression... Also will have to take the lower torsion leaves out and flip em so the grub screws line up.
Anyways the question I have is will bug lower ball joints fit into thing spindles? I read mixed info... I happen to have an extra set of bug lower ball joints so in a effort to save money I'm hoping to use them. It is my understanding that just the upper ball joints are different on a thing. They (lower bjs) looked the same to me (quick glance over).
Also for anyone searching this a super beetle speedo cable is a big long. I'm using a stock bug speedo (72) and it's plenty long enough. |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12857
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Try swapping the lower arms left to right before removing the ball joints (unless the ball joints pivot angle is incorrectly indexed), you may have gotten them mixed up. Once you do that the ball joints should be facing down. The grub screws on the trailing arms are facing down on one side & facing up on the other, when you swap sides, they will still be correct, no redimpling necessary. The lower ball joints are different from bug to thing in that the retaining flange is on opposite sides of the ball joint due to how they're loaded (thing lowers resemble the uppers).
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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Try swapping the lower arms left to right before removing the ball joints (unless the ball joints pivot angle is incorrectly indexed), you may have gotten them mixed up. Once you do that the ball joints should be facing down. The grub screws on the trailing arms are facing down on one side & facing up on the other, when you swap sides, they will still be correct, no redimpling necessary. The lower ball joints are different from bug to thing in that the retaining flange is on opposite sides of the ball joint due to how they're loaded (thing lowers resemble the uppers). |
If I swap them then the balljoints face the wrong way.. Have to pop em out. Also the grub screw will be on the wrong side so I just need to pull the lower leaves out and flip em. Currently the grub screws are correct for a bug but the arms are on the wrong side (makes a funny angle for balljoint because the seat isn't straight) so when I swap em the grub screws will no longer be correct. I only remember a dimple on one side of the leaves.. |
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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Dang looking at other pics the lower trailing arm is straight all the way to the ball joint seat. Mine are slightly bent.. I bet that guy bent them with his huge press. Was under the table without receipt and about a year ago so he isn't gonna fix it I'm sure.
I'll use my spare bug arms.
I'll post a pic later |
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