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So what do I/don't I have here? ('63 Notchback)
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///Mink
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject: So what do I/don't I have here? ('63 Notchback) Reply with quote

I recently acquired a Ruby Red 1963 Notchback. I've been playing with VWs for over 25 years now, but this is my very first Type 3! Some of you may be familiar with the car from previous threads here and/or the classifieds. The PO wanted to do a 1.8T conversion and slam it but was convinced not to by many of you. None of that will happen on my watch, the car will remain stock and will get a mechanical rejuvenation immediately and eventually a cosmetic one, too.

However, I'm a total Type 3 newbie and really don't know what I do/don't have here. The car seems pretty complete and original to me but I'm sure it's missing some things I'm not aware of. It also came with some parts that I don't recognize, due to my T3 ignorance.

First, a couple of the car itself. It's relatively rust free, but will need new rear pan halves:

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Next, the engine. I'm pretty sure this is a later engine based on the oil cooler and exhaust, but it still has the sidedraft carb (although someone hacked off the ends of preheat tube). Also, I think the muffler/heater boxes might have come with the newer engine?

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Here are some extra heater boxes that came with the car. They look different than what's on the engine (are these '63 originals?)

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Finally, some random things that came with the car.

Do these connect the fan housing to the heater boxes? What are all the extra connections for?

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This was at the bottom of a box (sorry for the blur). WTF is it?

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So what do I have, and what expensive things are missing? It seems to be mostly there, but what do I know? Embarassed
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supaninja
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that a 63 notch, here is a list of the cool features you got:
red needle gauges
push button dash
single side draft 1500
mickey mouse horn grills


Whatever you do do not throw anything away, no matter how wore out it might seem, especially interior bits.

that last pic is a cover for the seat release above the heater channel...hard to find, very hard to find.
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KIDSPEED
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mink, & welcome to the world of Type 3. Glad to see someone stepped up to the plate & gave that car a chance to stay true to itself. I was one of the ones who tried to convince the previous owner to put it out there for someone who wanted an original. I will leave your questions for someone much more knowledgeable about these early models than myself to answer. Congrats to you on your purchase & well wishes going forward with the car. That looks like a pretty nice Thing keeping it company so it looks like the Notch could have a bright future. Kudos to the previous owner for giving it a second chance. I myself like a well done custom, but too many great ideas don't get completed & then the vehicle often ends up being scrapped. At least if you start out with something very rough that no-one (or almost no-one) else wants, then if you end up not completing the project, little to nothing lost. Just my opinion. Anyway, enjoy the Notch Very Happy . I'm sure the experts will be along shortly to answer your questions.

-Laurence
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Adriel Rowley
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The curved tubes are what around here are called kidneys, which go between the fan outlets and the heater boxes. The ones you have are for the last three years, so be interested. What you are looking for has no outlets at all.

Looks like you are missing the rubber mat, horn half ring and button, cap for fuel pump, and probably a few others I have missed. The only way to know about the engine is to post up its number. Also looks like it might be 12 volt considering the aftermarket blue coil, but could be wrong. Hope this helps.
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome on board! Thats a decent start for you to go eithor way-stock or not.

The Heat Exchangers not on the motor are correct early ones, your muffler, those "C" tubes and I bet the heat exchangers on the motor are later. They work but just not correct to the car.

That plastic bit is what ninja said. Not realy needed but a neat item to have as only earlies have them. Keep it safe-its good to trade things like that to guys like me on other parts you may need Wink
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jimmynotch
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mink.... congrats on aquiring that notch. Nice to see it stayed in the Sacramento area. I am happy to see that it didn't get hacked. Now you need to start contacting the 1500 Club dudes and start sourcing the needed bits.
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Soul Built
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mink, I recognize your avatar from the Bus Forum. Cool

Congrats on the purchase. I have a 63 Ruby Red Notch also. Our cars look very similar in terms of patina and current condition. I have gone through mine quite a but and is just about ready to be a runner. I remember when the PO posted your car and said he wanted a Type 4 motor or something like that. Glad you "saved" it from that.

Let me know if I can answer any questions but Notchboy and the others are all great resources.

What are your current plans?
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krusher
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you put me out of my misery Mink and take some cutting compound and wax to a little bit of that car, ever time I see it I just want to polish that OG paint to see how it comes up Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krusher wrote:
Can you put me out of my misery Mink and take some cutting compound and wax to a little bit of that car, ever time I see it I just want to polish that OG paint to see how it comes up Very Happy


x2
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///Mink
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krusher wrote:
Can you put me out of my misery Mink and take some cutting compound and wax to a little bit of that car, ever time I see it I just want to polish that OG paint to see how it comes up Very Happy


Actually, it might be hard to believe, but it's not original paint. It was at least partially repainted a very long time ago. Also, the left door and right rear fender have been replaced at some time in its past.

So while it looks like original paint, it isn't. Therefore I don't feel bad about my plans to eventually do bodywork and paint it.
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VolksFire
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats Tom. I saw the notch early in the morning at BOR in the show area before the driver took it to the show area. I spoke with him for a few mins while lookin over the car. I'm not a T3 guy either but from the little I know it seems to be quite the gem. Good luck with it, look forward to seeing it around. Very Happy
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like a fairly complete little project. I'd leave the outside like it is until you're ready to do body work. I'd just concentrate on the mechanicals, and the rust (that alone will keep you busy). Judging by the other VWs in the background, it's in good hands, and should look sweet once it's repainted. Cool I'd listen to Jason (Notchboy) on the early stuff, as he knows these cars very well, and was the prez of the 1500 club (before he got into bay windows). Wink
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krusher
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

///Mink wrote:

Actually, it might be hard to believe, but it's not original paint.


Its not hard to believe at all, the amount of people who have told me there car for sale is OG paint, and when i go look at it it take all of 10 seconds to find a paint edge in a door shut to show the paint edge.

polish it anyway!!!!!
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krusher wrote:
///Mink wrote:

Actually, it might be hard to believe, but it's not original paint.


Its not hard to believe at all, the amount of people who have told me there car for sale is OG paint, and when i go look at it it take all of 10 seconds to find a paint edge in a door shut to show the paint edge.

polish it anyway!!!!!


I wouldn't waste my time IF I knew going in that it's getting repainted. Why do the work twice, and possibly ADD contaminents to the metal. IF you like fisheyes in your paint, go for it. I prefer to leave them out myself. Rolling Eyes I don't allow anything containing silicones in the shop. Shocked Especially Armor all. Evil or Very Mad And waxes are just as bad.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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t3kg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: So what do I/don't I have here? ('63 Notchback) Reply with quote

///Mink wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is a later engine based on the oil cooler and exhaust, but it still has the sidedraft carb (although someone hacked off the ends of preheat tube). Also, I think the muffler/heater boxes might have come with the newer engine?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I'm really glad this one is being saved. Looks pretty solid and original to me. The engine has been messed with a bit but in general it's set up the way a late '62/early '63 should be. What's the engine number? The distributor, fuel pump and coil are wrong, the frontmost piece of tin is missing, and the hardware store wiring and carb return spring are hilarious, but the oil cooler appears to be the right one for the car. The muffler is a later one with removable heater boxes meant for a dual carb engine -- it works but is not correct for the car and has no provision for the heat riser, which may be why a PO hacked the intake manifold. Those heater elbows with the extra connections are for a later model. In all it wouldn't be hard to put it right.
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///Mink
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. The engine appears to be a universal case (U0301163). I just realized that some of the paperwork that came with the car indicates that the engine was rebuilt about 10 years ago and was installed in a 1970 Squareback. At some point after that it made its way into this Notch, so that might explain some of the mix-and-match nature of the thing.

It seems to run well enough, so I'll probably just keep it for now and try to swap out some of the incorrect bits for the right ones. It'll never be the original engine, but I can at least try to make it look a little more correct.

I've got some feelers out locally for the front tin and an non-hacked intake. Of course, it sounds like that would require a new muffler, too.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be a great partner for my ruby red patina square.

I just sanded enough for a tooth for the clear and clear coated mine.
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///Mink
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a busy weekend with the new toy. Fixed a lot of little things and a few big ones, too. At some point in the past, I guess someone thought the rear end sat too low and decided to raise it. Unfortunately, it ended up being seriously decambered, even when settled (see the 2nd pic in my first post). So I simply lowered it back down a notch (get it?) on the rear and I think it looks perfectly normal now. I also replaced a badly leaking rear axle seal while I was in there. How it sits now:

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I also noticed that the front end was seriously sloppy. I had my wife rock the steering back and forth while I watched, and noticed about 1/2" (!) of slop in the upper trailing arms. Did some reading and decided to try adjusting it. But first, I had to scrape off about 2 lbs of filth from the front end just to find the adjustment bolts. I doubt it had been touched since the 60s!

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I also swapped the front brake hoses and lubed the front end. What a difference all that made! I still need to locate a couple of correct wheels and at least a pair of tires before I'll feel comfortable taking it off my street, though.
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supaninja
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet, that notch just needs mechanical attention and your doing that!
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///Mink
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had some leftover Ghia/Thing pan sections on hand, so I decided to used them to patch the rotten left rear floor section. The patch panel is welded in, sealed with 3M autobody seam sealant, painted with POR 15 and finally undercoated. Sure, it's ugly as sin, but at least it's solid now. And it's a damn sight better than anyone else had done to it in the last 48 years and it should survive a nuclear winter. And it didn't cost anything.

The right side will need more help as the rust is much worse. I may have to go with a Gerson pan over there.

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