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Sagging 67 Ghia in Portland...
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67ghiapdx
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Sagging 67 Ghia in Portland... Reply with quote

My 67 has the typical sagging in the rear from worn/out of adjustment torsion bars...I've had a couple of estimates from local mechanics and they said 400-500 bucks! Is that typical for what I should expect to pay? I'm not terribly mechanically inclined and have read here that removing and adjusting these is not for inexperienced owners...anyone have recommendations as to where in Portland I should go to get this done?
thanks!
LM
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF you have any mechanical skills and the ability to read and follow directions you can do it yourself.

I'd suggest you purchase the Bentley Type I service manual, they have instructions to do as you desire. Couple that with advice given on this forum and you'll be golden!
$50 for a book you can use for years to come is way cheaper than $500 for a one time shot for a repair!!

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http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Beetle-Karmann-Official-Service/dp/0837604168

Dave
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Greg67Ghia
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Dave. I just totally stripped the rear end of my ghia and put it back together with the help of the Bentley manual and the bug-me videos. For the most part (and so far), VWs are very very easy to work on - it was German engineered to be a simple as could be and still work. The only tools you might have to buy are a spring plate tool and a protractor (I got mine from harbor freight, but Sears has them also).

The spring plate tool:
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-7047

If you decide to do it yourself, you might want to look into getting the bushing
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C16-133-246-LR

I've heard that urethane ones might be squeaky so I stuck with rubber.

I would guess that one side might take you a day to do if you never done it before, but the second side might only take a couple of hours.

There is a lot of enjoyment working on these yourself and as long as it's not your only source of transportation and don't have to rush to get it done, I would recommend doing it yourself.
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61 BUS Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The $400 to $500 seems a bit high. I would expect $100 to $200 at most if you have a mechanic do it.
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bdenny1010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is really not that difficult or complicated. It took me about three hours to do both sides the first time. There are several good youtube videos of the process. As Greg said above, replace the bushings and have a couple of longer bolts (M10 x1.5 x 30mm, I think) to get the cover to go on.
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HouseofGhia
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can do the work here at House of Ghia in Salem for less than half your estimate......503-364-4442 for more info.
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hudsonce
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same problem on my 68 coupe. Lucky enough to have aircooled VW expert in town. Took him 1 day. $175. You are being hoodwinked.
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jwold
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post a pic?

I'm in PDX, also with a 67, I'd love to see the comparison to know if mine is unusually sagging or not.

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67ghiapdx
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did you find this Ghia...locally? Looks like it's pretty straight. My digital camera is on the fritz currently, so I can't post any photos...mine is worse than yours as far as sagging goes...and my front appears a bit higher.

The guy that gave me the 400-500 quote said I should get the torsion bar adjustment before the new paint job...is that a valid concern? I'd like to wait until after it's painted since it's nearly disassembled (doors and windows at least) at this point.
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jwold
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this one in Ridgefield, WA about 2 years ago.

I think you'll be pulling off those torsion bar covers. I think you'd want to get all the mechanicals and anything else like doors, hood & trunk & alignment ready to go to minimize future chipping.
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got in touch with Karmann and they told me that the best standard to use is the rockers. The car is supposed to look like it it higher in front but the rockers should be parallel to the ground. I'd measure the distance from the ground at the front and at the rear tips of the rockers and decide how to raise the car.

Half of your estimate is pretty good and I have great confidence in Mike's ability to do the job right.

If you do it yourself the youtube videos are great but do get the tool -- it will shave hours off the job and reduce the chances of an accident.

Be warned he job is full of might as wells -- if you are back there you might as well change the soft brake lines, to flush the brakes, grease the bearings and the like. If you want to get it done quickly, you don't really need to open rear brakes or to remove the rear torsion arm as the Bentley suggests. You could just remove the soft brake lines and let the torsion arm assembly rest on a jack stand.
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pabloghia
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LM, Boy has this topic hit home!
When I first got my car it was slammed pretty hard. So I thought "what the hell, this can't be that hard to do". Well after two days I finally got it buttoned up only to see it was still too low.
(Now keep in mind I had no idea there was a tool out there that would speed this process up.)
So I tear into it again. I have all these parts scattered under the car and I decide that my problem was that my torsion bars were worn. I found a good deal on some new ones and install those in about half the time as the first attempt. Well now the car is TOO HIGH!
After thinking about this for a while I get smart and decided to do what the book said and get a protractor to set them.
Well I finally got it set where I wanted and I swore that if I ever had to do that again I would have someone who knows what they are doing (like Mike at HOG) do the work. It just wasn't worth the hassle. (This job almost cut my arm off.) But you have to remember I am basically a pretty lazy guy.
By the way the car is now at The House of Ghia getting properly restored. Good Luck!
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srandol
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwold wrote:
Can you post a pic?

I'm in PDX, also with a 67, I'd love to see the comparison to know if mine is unusually sagging or not.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I have a a 67 Ghia and am in Portland. If you guys want to get together over a beer and talk shop, let me know.

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ovghiaguy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: sagging 67 ghia Reply with quote

To 67 ghiapdx. doing the torsion bar adjustment on a 67 is alot easier than on an IRS type suspension and the videos (U Tube ) are geared more to this type (67). I bought the tool from cip 1 and borrowed a protractor. Using the longer bolts didn't work out so I didn't use them ( on a 70 ). Be mindful of the spring pressure when releasing the torsion bars, mark your reference points on bar and plate before adjusting anything and use protractor when spring plate is released for a reference point. There are tables available, use these as a questimation. The tool comes with a nut which I would discard and use a standard nut available at hardware store. If you do your homework well before starting this job is easy. But if you are not comfortable, look for a mechanic.
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jwold
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

srandol, 67ghiapdx

That sounds good. How about some eve the week after Christmas?
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JoelH
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my dad's '67 Ghia in the garage right now and that thing REALLY sags in the ass end. It has the stock shocks, which I plan to replace. I'm thinking that I'm probably going to have to pull the spring plates, replace the bushings, and reinstall the spring plates maybe 1 spline to get it back up in the air a bit more, perhaps, where it sat when new. any ideas or comments?
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^drop spindles in the front and it will look right Cool plus you get to keep your hands, fingers and arms.
Or... your plan works too. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, we are doing drop spindles up front, which I know will "level" it out...maybe I will wait until I get that done to see what I think. The only problem is that it will most likely get worse over the years in the rear.....I don't know why people are so scared to mess with the rear end of a car. I've built a couple bugs and I've played around with the stance quite a bit on them and I've NEVER had problems with the swing plates flying out at me. Maybe it's just that people are too scared to even try it and find out what it's like...who knows
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jwold
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh...I've hardly done anything to my ghia! Soon I hope...such slow progress.
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mfitzsimor
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you still need to find someone to work on your Ghia's rear height, I had my 69's done by Alan at A&P Specialties. He's located near SE Washington and 82nd. Great reputation and he did a nice job. In 2005, he did it for $225.

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