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SplitPersonality
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2004
Posts: 630
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: The "Kubel-tank" at the Treffen...? |
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What is the story of it?...not the "historic history"....but the story of this very sample?
Great looking thing!
Check Everett's picture in the coachbuilt gallery...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=847183
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mcdronkz
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2005
Posts: 446
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Wondering if it's a genuine Type 823 'Panzerattrape'  |
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RareAir
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 14577
Location: 18 miles North of the border
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coad 
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| RareAir wrote: |
| I heard at the show it was created for motion pictures and/or TV purposes |
That's what the dj said, but I think it's real. It's a real kubel underneath, and the side pieces are attached using neat little castings that no movie studio would have taken the trouble to make. The interior also looked 100% correct, and someone went to a lot of trouble to remove and seal up the doors.
You have to climb in through a hatch in the back, and there were very visible wear spots and indentations in the metal where a lot of people had stepped over the years.
The sides and the turret are very heavy steel. If it has factory gearing I don't know how the 25h engine could handle it.
More/better photos here (but no information):
http://www.warwheels.net/KubelwagenPorscheType823Keenan.html |
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Ed Economy
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Lost In LA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| It is real, but it was used as a war decoy used to distract the enemy’s from the real tanks as they were on the move. |
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Mr. Unpopular
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3715
Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Why wouldn't they just bolt some plywood to the side instead of nicely hanging steel from it and making it a pain in the ass to get in/out of?
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DSF
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2004
Posts: 605
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Bullets were probably expected to fly in it's general direction? |
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gonebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Notice the boxed semaphore mounted behind the driver window, no movie prop shop would put that there. |
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coad
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Unpopular wrote: |
| Why wouldn't they just bolt some plywood to the side instead of nicely hanging steel from it and making it a pain in the ass to get in/out of? |
I don't know, especially since the things that look like indents stamped into the sides are actually pieces of wood screwed on to flat steel. I bet the steel in the sides is 3X thicker than the metal used in the kubel itself.
The guy I feel sorry for is the poor private who had to sit in there and pretend to operate the fake gun. The heat must have been unbelievable inside that tin can with just those two little windows, and the chair he had to sit in might be the most uncomfortable looking chair I've ever seen. |
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FASTBACKDON
The other insensitive jerk like Neil
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 3592
Location: TORRANCE CALIF
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| coad wrote: |
| Mr. Unpopular wrote: |
| Why wouldn't they just bolt some plywood to the side instead of nicely hanging steel from it and making it a pain in the ass to get in/out of? |
I don't know, especially since the things that look like indents stamped into the sides are actually pieces of wood screwed on to flat steel. I bet the steel in the sides is 3X thicker than the metal used in the kubel itself.
The guy I feel sorry for is the poor private who had to sit in there and pretend to operate the fake gun. The heat must have been unbelievable inside that tin can with just those two little windows, and the chair he had to sit in might be the most uncomfortable looking chair I've ever seen. |
The better question is did they think they could fool anyone with this? How many real tanks had side windows and a windshield LOL. As said before I feel so sorry for the poor bastard they assigned to drive that.
How many were built? How many survived? I can magine a P-51 pilot seeing that and what happened to it after the straffing DAMN. I do like the vehicle I would love to have one Imagine the stories that vehicle holds
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66brm
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 3676
Location: Perth Western Australia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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We, (the Australian Army) pulled that trick on the US Marines here in Australia in 2003, it worked then, I don't see why it wouldn't work during WW2 
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| modok wrote: |
| I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
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Komissar
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 894
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think it was intended to patrol along the dunes of the North Africa, and to be observed by the enemies from far away, to the point where their details couldn't be observed so easily.
Also I doubt the dummy turret had an human operator, since it had a dummy gun (didn't it ? ) - i see no point in assigning a soldier to a dummy gun inside a closed vehicle (where no one could SEE him operating the gun).
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chthemonkey
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2008
Posts: 105
Location: united kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| do you think they made different varyations of it like a half track landrover defender |
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SplitPersonality
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2004
Posts: 630
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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It looks awesome...
I know the story of the fake tanks and Porsche's Type 823.
But - what is the story on this very sample? Did it actually survive the war and make it to the USA (if so: amazing!)...or is it a good recreation based on a real Kubel and drawings and pictures?
Who owns it? |
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Gerrelt
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2004
Posts: 682
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:22 am Post subject: |
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A quick search on german wikipedia told me that these "Panzerattrappe" were not only used as decoys, but as tank training vehicles too.
Actually, these vehicles first were driving school vehicles.
That would explain all the details that seems unnecesarry for a decoy.
See german wikipedia:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerattrappe
Google translate of the same article: LINK
If this one is original, then it's amazing it survived.
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BNMike
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2009
Posts: 333
Location: Hot Springs, SD
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
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If it ain't original, it's a dead ringer for the 1941 photo in Piekalkiewicz' "Kubelwagon Type 82" book 
BNMike |
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Ed Economy
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Lost In LA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| SplitPersonality wrote: |
It looks awesome...
I know the story of the fake tanks and Porsche's Type 823.
But - what is the story on this very sample? Did it actually survive the war and make it to the USA (if so: amazing!)...or is it a good recreation based on a real Kubel and drawings and pictures?
Who owns it? |
Did it actually survive the war and make it to the USA?
YES it is real
It is owned by a private collector with his own private museum. He asked not to be entered in the show or display his name. He brought out a couple war vehicles just to share with everyone. |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24131
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Who would ever expect an original tank trainer to survive? This is an extraordinary find.
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: |
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I'd slam it and lay it out or earlies.
{There. Someone had to say it.} 
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pbaptist
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