Yamaducci's 2498 cc Turbo Re-Build Thread

mark tucker · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:05 am Post subject:

I see no reason for not using both gallys and making the oil go through a sharp corner maze at a fast rate,when it can be slowed down. ANd I add horazontile groves in the lifter bores at the oil holes about 1/4" out& 3/8' inward(torward cam) about 1/8"wide.040-.060 deep .so the groves in the lifters always have oil pressure to them as the lifter travels through it,s cycle.
I see why the hoover mod is dont and I have dont basicly the same thing for years, before hearing of it by adding the extra gally, but I cant for the life on me figure out why they disable the main gally goint to the cooler,more flow paths& easyer flow is always better,more flow paths can result in lower pressure from releaving flow restrictions &obstacles witch makes hp &longevity. and his diagram has the bypass spring still in the circut,so you have to build enough pressure to open the bypass&feed the bearings through a restrictive maze.if you do it with the cooler gally pluged, the spring&piston need to be totaly removed&the seat totaly cut out to the piston dia, then the lower vacume break hole pluged off.and dont for get the oe gallys are tapered so there is a restriction in the center where the cam&lifters get thier oil from so any thing past that will see a drop.I think thats part of why vw had it oiling from the center along with it spliting the oil thus slowing it down.and the cooler bypass was there for when there was a rize in pressure in the upper gally, ohwell you already know about that portion. good luck and lets hear this thing roar!!!

yamaducci · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject:

OK Time for a small update....
I was diverted from the build by a set of Autocraft rockers that are just not compatible with the Competition Eliminator heads in terms of gettting the Valve Geometry correct. I diverted to this thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511202 for some discussion on it. After attempting to set up valve geometry, waiting for multimple orders of various lash caps and rocker shims I discussed the possibility of relocating the studs and lowering/milling the rocker pads Then I Talked to Pat Downs and he said just go with Pauters. They were on back order for weeks. So now I got them straight from Pauter Machine and had a little time to set them up.
I left the good camera home so I will have to update with better pics but this is the initial set up at zero lift with the new non-needle-bearing rockers. Much better than the the Autocraft arrangement.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
Cox Racing Engines
Class 5-1600's; Stock 1600 to 2498cc Type 1's. Custom Built for you in Maryland

yamaducci · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:33 am Post subject:

While on vacation I was able to button up the long block.
Here is what I did:
Swapped out the K800 springs and chromoly retainers for the CB Performance LS Dual Springs and Titanium retainers.

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Here's a shot of the Wiseco 94mm dished pistons running a zero deck.

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Assembly with the CE Heads, 94's and the racing, wide-mouth pushrod tubes.

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Converted the Stage 4 Kennedy and Copperhead disk to Late style in preperation for adding the sleeve to my early trans. Notice the balance index marks put there by Brothers Machine.

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The new style needle bearing-less 1.4 Pauter Roller Rockers all set up.

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A couple shots of the finished long block.
Notice the small drysump pump BMD Serpantine pulley and Bugpack Dry Sump Pump.

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_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
Cox Racing Engines
Class 5-1600's; Stock 1600 to 2498cc Type 1's. Custom Built for you in Maryland

SRP1 · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:43 am Post subject:

Looks good John! I like the Pauter rockers on there.
_________________
www.srpengines.com

Bugless.......

yamaducci · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:58 am Post subject:

Thanks Steve.
The rocker arms and geometry is the most time consuming part of this build. I started off with the old Auto Crafts and they could not be set up right with these heads so I got hooked up with the Pauters and everything is looking up now. It still took hours to perfectly shim the side-play out, set geometry cut the dual tapered pushrods then clean, pre-lube and then reassemble. I also weighed most components and of course the pictures. My confidence in the engine has gone way up with the accuracy of the geometry and build as a whole. I believe it will be a fairly long lived Large displacement engine with the parts selection and specified tolerences.
I am looking forward to the "First Run" video myself.
_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
Cox Racing Engines
Class 5-1600's; Stock 1600 to 2498cc Type 1's. Custom Built for you in Maryland

SRP1 · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:16 am Post subject:

Yea I'd love to see some dyno numbers from that build, it's not every day that a guy takes the time, to outline the details of the build by component like you did. I LIKE... Cool

_________________
www.srpengines.com

Bugless.......

yamaducci · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:36 am Post subject:

SRP1 · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 am Post subject:

slalombuggy · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:54 am Post subject:

It's always nice to see something that just falls together LOL.

Engine looks great John. Another couple days and it should be running Very Happy

Do you already have the intake and exhaust systems built up?

Thanks for all your help on my build.

brad
_________________
BB Buggy 121.253mph @ Bonneville 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57hMyJmIU10
Raisin cookies that look like chocolate chip cookies are the main reason I have trust issues

yamaducci · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject:

yamaducci · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:58 am Post subject:

Now that the long block is complete and over an inch wider than stock; I am working on widening all the cylinder tin, modifying them for Comp Eliminator heads, widening the sled tin, the fan shroud and thermostat bracket; as well as, attempting to run the stock thermostat with Comp Eliminator Heads. The Industrial shields and cylinder tin directional vanes are from Awesome Powdercoat (thanks Clark). Here are some preliminary pics I took when cutting off pieces of cylinder tin to weld on my new SCAT Tins. This will lengthen them about 1/2". More to come.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
Cox Racing Engines
Class 5-1600's; Stock 1600 to 2498cc Type 1's. Custom Built for you in Maryland

mark tucker · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:37 am Post subject:

how do the rockers oil?through the screw?through the shaft? what are the 2 holes in the rocker we can see in the pic?kinda strange placement for some holes.yes there on the compression side,but still.just wondring.also is the id dfl coated?looks sweet hope you get to have a lot of fun with it.

yamaducci · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:55 am Post subject:

Two holes in rockers allow oil to flow in to the shaft, a slot or notch is cut on the side of rockers to allow thrust oiling and oil is fed out of the end of the push rod and adjuster (adjuster is drilled). This method is the same basic method as all piston-to-wrist pin oiling in every other engine available. There is no DFL coating. The machining is incredibly perfect and there are relief cuts inside the rockers I.D. at the oil hole location like a Mahle main bearing. Maybe 45*-60* of relief.
Exceptional parts really.
We'll see how they last. Note: I am running as close to .005" side clearance with each tip perfectly lined up with the roller and geometry is spot on. So far, I am very confident in this set up.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
Cox Racing Engines
Class 5-1600's; Stock 1600 to 2498cc Type 1's. Custom Built for you in Maryland

Chip B. · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:12 am Post subject:

I'm sure you've answered this a few times, but please share with us the advantages to using this 8 injector EFI. How is it tuned? Why does it need 8 injectors? Your attention to detail has been awesome! I can't wait to watch you taste the fruit of your labors.

yamaducci · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:07 am Post subject:

The original 4-knob Turbo Fuel Injection design by CB Performance (Pat Downs and Co.) was basically to have a stand-alone FI system with the ability to pump in a higher volume of fuel under boost AND Outflow and perform any 48-52mmCarb on the market. Since the system was designed to be hand-adjusted similar to carbs with an additional knob as a "switch point" to boost enrichment mode; it enables the driver/tuner to set the mixture for Idle, Mid, Switch point and Boost Levels. Since this is not a granular Lap-top based system with the ability to trim on a table, like what is available through Motec, Electromotive and others; I believe it richens both injectors to each cylinder at the same time. The schematic and wiring in series proves that to be true. The lap top based system that I will be moving to are sequential, in that, when the main injector runs out of capacity to inject, the secondary injector will bring in the needed fuel under boost. The injectors are of small and large variety but since they do not currently work sequentially; I believe it could have easily been accomplished with one very large injector or two equal sized smaller injectors. Still, a more granular tuning ability would most certainly be needed to attain perfect performance out of a twin injector system like this. CB Performance later ceased production of the 8-injector system and no longer supports it or provides documentation on their website. I even emailed to ask that it be reposted with no response.
It would be nice if Pat Downs had the time and desire to step in and assist in the tuning of this extreme build.
For the record. I will make it's first run with the CB Performance Electronics and may even go as far as to Chassis dyno dune it. If it fails to provide ideal tuning numbers it will be scrapped for the more modern Lap Top based Electromotive system.
Once the new sequential system is installed (Likely Electromotive) it will truly act as intended. Run on Primary large injector, then under boost, will add-in the smaller secondary injector.
_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
Cox Racing Engines
Class 5-1600's; Stock 1600 to 2498cc Type 1's. Custom Built for you in Maryland

Chip B. · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:12 am Post subject:

I kinda thought is sounded like the 4 knob, just with an extra injector wired in on each cyl. Why wait to replace it, when the lack of tunablity could be devastating to your build? I would jump on a sequential system, or at least something laptop tunable right away, since you are still in the build stages. Then again, if you are out to prove that the current system is able to do what is needed, then do it, by all means. Have you thought about dumping the extra 4 injectors, when going with the new setup, and just buy 4 really big ones? Injector technology is not what it used to be. The old rules do not apply as much as they used to. It used to be impossible to run really large injectors without drowning the engine at low RPM, and the injectors that would feed the low RPM areas couldn't keep up with big HP producing machines. TODAY there are injectors out there that will do both. I have 4 1000cc injectors http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html on my current build and they idle, run and drive very nicely. And have the capacity to support 400-450 hp on E85, or around 600 on gas. No staging needed.
They are a little pricey, but save you from having to buy 8, so cost is probably about the same. But it does save on system complication. Just food for thought.

TURBOEDVW · Samba Member Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 161

With 8 injectors you can run pump gas and race fuel on demand. Or as Nelson Racing calls it octane on demand. Look up Nelson racing or NRE on YouTube. He runs multiple injectors per cylinders on a lot of his motors.

yamaducci · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:59 am Post subject:

yamaducci · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:01 am Post subject:

yamaducci · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:29 am Post subject:

For those that never understand why a turbo charged or other very high performance engines cost so much....

Only the:
-10 AN Fitting and Hose
-8 AN Fitting and Hose
-6 AN Fitting and Hose
-5 Fittings and Hose
-4 AN Fitting and Hose

For the Dual Fuel injection systems, Dry sump pump system, thermostat, oil tank and cooler and vacuum lines.

Plumbing Grand Total = $865
Reliability = Priceless
Boy that hurt!
_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
Cox Racing Engines
Class 5-1600's; Stock 1600 to 2498cc Type 1's. Custom Built for you in Maryland

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