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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:40 am Post subject: |
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The shroud and cooling (externals, drilled push rods, etc) was/is running just fine on temps. Consistantly never breaks 185 oil temp, under a load, on hills, warm days, in traffic, etc. Heads never get overly hot, are equal on both sides, never ping, let alone diesel, and the motor is running great.
Sorry to vanish, but I tabled the thread because Ray backburnered my car a while back after I lost my clutch at Test And Tune. It's been sitting under a cover ever since and I fear is becoming a victim of projectitis with him. It was my daily driver and I don't own another vehicle and am borrowing his Honda, and have been for the 8 months of this build. I have been trying to wait patiently while Ray gets caught up on customer work and back to Hugo....
When he pulls the motor to do the clutch (CB is warrantying out the clutch BTW, its new and heavy duty), he will be finishing several things on this build and I will report on it then. Namely, the carbs need rebuilds, even though they are brand new. The new alternator too, serious endplay. The electronic ignition also didn't work correctly, brand new, so we put in an old 009 knockoff to rule it out for now (runs great with that). Basically, every NEW part was FJ.
Re: my tranny, yes it is old and has probably 80,000 miles on it. It has a close ratio 3rd, otherwise stock gearing. I am taking care of it by not dumping the clutch and it's holding together fine. _________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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padex Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2007 Posts: 121 Location: Newcastle Ca,
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dawn it sucks not having your bug, i hit a deer going to work 3 weeks ago hate not having my ride. hope ray gets your back together soon. |
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craigman Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2397 Location: redding
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:10 am Post subject: |
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When you say "Heads never get overly hot", what temps are you considering "overly hot"?
Also pulling hills, ect., shouldn't affect oil temps. RPM's is what affects oil temps. Pulling hills will affect head temps. |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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craigman wrote: |
When you say "Heads never get overly hot", what temps are you considering "overly hot"?
Also pulling hills, ect., shouldn't affect oil temps. RPM's is what affects oil temps. Pulling hills will affect head temps. |
The oil in this motor is being used to cool the heads, remember? So, the oil temps do reflect head temps to some extent.
The head temps with the IR gun are typically in the 200's, the highest I ever got a reading was 350, but that was early on before making some changes. _________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8497 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Without a REAL CHT gauge you are just guessing even with a IR gun. Even a crappy VDO gauge will give you a better idea of what is really going on. I bet your 350 reading was closer to 450 at the chamber where the temp really matters, remember the seats/valves and guides are what will fail at high temps and the IR gun cant even get close to those parts.
For that questionable shroud CHT guages for BOTH heads are needed to see the problem with that design. The temp on the 3/4 head will be significantly hotter than the 1/2 head even with the (secret) mods that were done.
The oil squirters will help a little bit but not enough to register on a gauge. |
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andy198712 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010 Posts: 1209 Location: Cornwall - UK
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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good to hear from you, sorry its under cover at the minute, looking forward to the next update! |
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craigman Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2397 Location: redding
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Using a IR gun for head temps is worthless. Like was mentioned, you need to know the temp in the chamber. And using a gauge with a sensor mounted under the spark plug will give you the closest readings.
And yes, oil does help cool your heads, but you can have 160 oil temp and 400 head temp at the same time.
I would suggest getting a real head temp gauge. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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the Slant Shrouds sent too much cooling air to one side, and not enough to the other. They are well known for this cooling imbalance, but they look great on the trailer. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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RailBoy Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2008 Posts: 2904 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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If you remember in the thread, he did extensive work on the shroud, hope it all works out, cool to get to play with old and new ideas, just a bummer its your daily..... RB |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8497 Location: PNW
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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RailBoy wrote: |
If you remember in the thread, he did extensive work on the shroud, hope it all works out, |
There is not enough room on the left side of the shroud to install enough diverter veins to correctly place the cooling air to the 3/4 side. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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it takes around 3/4 of the diameter of the fan's air to route to the 3/4 side, to equalize the flow and pressure. Look at the RAT DTM Shroud. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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Bginvestor Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Tucson,az
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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808OvalGreasemonkey wrote: |
I did the same thing to my speedster. The left carb has this "leak" or drip after you turn it off even with the float levels setup correctly. I am wondering if this is the "Spanish Weber porous casting drip"?
The garage will then smell like a gas station...so I installed a on/off switch and I turn the electric pump off and let the engine idle for about 3-5 minutes and now there is no more smell and flooding/hard starting when warm. Works great. I think the residual pressure makes a lot of the gas piss out when you turn off the motor. |
I have this exact problem on my 48 IDAs. When the engine hot soaks, gas spits out of the pump jets. Still trying to do research on this issue. I have rotary pump that should allow gas to flow through it and back to the gas tank? This should reduce pressure in the fuel lines..but problem is still there..
I was recommended to try some thick rubber gaskets between the manifolds and carbs to isolate the hot engine temps... |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8497 Location: PNW
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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[email protected] wrote: |
it takes around 3/4 of the diameter of the fan's air to route to the 3/4 side, to equalize the flow and pressure. Look at the RAT DTM Shroud. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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what that pic doesn't show you is the ducting that steals some of the 1/2 air to go to the 3/4 side to even things up. Looks primitive, but works. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8497 Location: PNW
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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[email protected] wrote: |
what that pic doesn't show you is the ducting that steals some of the 1/2 air to go to the 3/4 side to even things up. Looks primitive, but works. |
I thought the ducting was for the oil cooler
Here are some pics of the internal veins, dont think any of this is going to fit into the centermount shroud!
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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you are right! Been a while since I saw one, I forgot. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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bugnut68 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003 Posts: 4180 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think at the very least it would be interesting to see what kind of mods were made to the shroud, and also what the head temps would be with an actual head temp gauge hooked up, as said by someone else, under the number three plug. |
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VIN Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2006 Posts: 941 Location: phoenix
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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they do make shorter rivets, those 10 inch long rivets look a little sloppy. _________________ Co-owner, 2 Brothers Guns
[email protected]
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8497 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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VIN wrote: |
they do make shorter rivets, those 10 inch long rivets look a little sloppy. |
I think the pics are of a very early raby shroud, I dont think they look the same today |
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