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Ray Vallero stroker build for my '63 ragtop bug
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dsimas62
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shroud and cooling (externals, drilled push rods, etc) was/is running just fine on temps. Consistantly never breaks 185 oil temp, under a load, on hills, warm days, in traffic, etc. Heads never get overly hot, are equal on both sides, never ping, let alone diesel, and the motor is running great.

Sorry to vanish, but I tabled the thread because Ray backburnered my car a while back after I lost my clutch at Test And Tune. It's been sitting under a cover ever since and I fear is becoming a victim of projectitis with him. It was my daily driver and I don't own another vehicle and am borrowing his Honda, and have been for the 8 months of this build. I have been trying to wait patiently while Ray gets caught up on customer work and back to Hugo....

When he pulls the motor to do the clutch (CB is warrantying out the clutch BTW, its new and heavy duty), he will be finishing several things on this build and I will report on it then. Namely, the carbs need rebuilds, even though they are brand new. The new alternator too, serious endplay. The electronic ignition also didn't work correctly, brand new, so we put in an old 009 knockoff to rule it out for now (runs great with that). Basically, every NEW part was FJ.

Re: my tranny, yes it is old and has probably 80,000 miles on it. It has a close ratio 3rd, otherwise stock gearing. I am taking care of it by not dumping the clutch and it's holding together fine. Smile
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Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095

Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210
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padex
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawn it sucks not having your bug, i hit a deer going to work 3 weeks ago hate not having my ride. hope ray gets your back together soon.
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craigman
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say "Heads never get overly hot", what temps are you considering "overly hot"?
Also pulling hills, ect., shouldn't affect oil temps. RPM's is what affects oil temps. Pulling hills will affect head temps.
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dsimas62
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
When you say "Heads never get overly hot", what temps are you considering "overly hot"?
Also pulling hills, ect., shouldn't affect oil temps. RPM's is what affects oil temps. Pulling hills will affect head temps.


The oil in this motor is being used to cool the heads, remember? So, the oil temps do reflect head temps to some extent.

The head temps with the IR gun are typically in the 200's, the highest I ever got a reading was 350, but that was early on before making some changes.
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Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095

Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without a REAL CHT gauge you are just guessing even with a IR gun. Even a crappy VDO gauge will give you a better idea of what is really going on. I bet your 350 reading was closer to 450 at the chamber where the temp really matters, remember the seats/valves and guides are what will fail at high temps and the IR gun cant even get close to those parts.

For that questionable shroud CHT guages for BOTH heads are needed to see the problem with that design. The temp on the 3/4 head will be significantly hotter than the 1/2 head even with the (secret) mods that were done.

The oil squirters will help a little bit but not enough to register on a gauge.
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andy198712
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good to hear from you, sorry its under cover at the minute, looking forward to the next update!
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craigman
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a IR gun for head temps is worthless. Like was mentioned, you need to know the temp in the chamber. And using a gauge with a sensor mounted under the spark plug will give you the closest readings.
And yes, oil does help cool your heads, but you can have 160 oil temp and 400 head temp at the same time.
I would suggest getting a real head temp gauge.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Slant Shrouds sent too much cooling air to one side, and not enough to the other. They are well known for this cooling imbalance, but they look great on the trailer.
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RailBoy
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you remember in the thread, he did extensive work on the shroud, hope it all works out, cool to get to play with old and new ideas, just a bummer its your daily..... RB
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RailBoy wrote:
If you remember in the thread, he did extensive work on the shroud, hope it all works out,


There is not enough room on the left side of the shroud to install enough diverter veins to correctly place the cooling air to the 3/4 side.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it takes around 3/4 of the diameter of the fan's air to route to the 3/4 side, to equalize the flow and pressure. Look at the RAT DTM Shroud.
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Bginvestor
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

808OvalGreasemonkey wrote:
I did the same thing to my speedster. The left carb has this "leak" or drip after you turn it off even with the float levels setup correctly. I am wondering if this is the "Spanish Weber porous casting drip"?
The garage will then smell like a gas station...so I installed a on/off switch and I turn the electric pump off and let the engine idle for about 3-5 minutes and now there is no more smell and flooding/hard starting when warm. Works great. I think the residual pressure makes a lot of the gas piss out when you turn off the motor.


I have this exact problem on my 48 IDAs. When the engine hot soaks, gas spits out of the pump jets. Still trying to do research on this issue. I have rotary pump that should allow gas to flow through it and back to the gas tank? This should reduce pressure in the fuel lines..but problem is still there..

I was recommended to try some thick rubber gaskets between the manifolds and carbs to isolate the hot engine temps...
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
it takes around 3/4 of the diameter of the fan's air to route to the 3/4 side, to equalize the flow and pressure. Look at the RAT DTM Shroud.


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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what that pic doesn't show you is the ducting that steals some of the 1/2 air to go to the 3/4 side to even things up. Looks primitive, but works.
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
what that pic doesn't show you is the ducting that steals some of the 1/2 air to go to the 3/4 side to even things up. Looks primitive, but works.


I thought the ducting was for the oil cooler

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here are some pics of the internal veins, dont think any of this is going to fit into the centermount shroud!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are right! Been a while since I saw one, I forgot.
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I brought up the center mount fan 8 months ago.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=25
Glenn wrote:
All that attention to detail and you're gonna use one of those shrouds? Seriously they do not work as well as the OEM. I've seen one cook the #3 / #4 side.

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bugnut68
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think at the very least it would be interesting to see what kind of mods were made to the shroud, and also what the head temps would be with an actual head temp gauge hooked up, as said by someone else, under the number three plug.
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VIN
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they do make shorter rivets, those 10 inch long rivets look a little sloppy.
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VIN wrote:
they do make shorter rivets, those 10 inch long rivets look a little sloppy.


I think the pics are of a very early raby shroud, I dont think they look the same today
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