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Santaji
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2007
Posts: 105
Location: Mumbai, India
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 Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Yes, 40 is melt your engine zone. Forget timing at idle, it is irrelevant. You want 28 degrees BTDC with the vacuum hose off at 3000rpm. With the hose on it should go to 30-32. |
It's not uncommon for a properly timed type 4 to momentarily hit the high 40's with all the hoses connected but that only occurs during conditions where it's OK, as you say the bottom line is the hoses off timing at speed.
The idiot guide and even the big green book are written for engines and distributors that are perfectly matched and have components with young nubile springs and rubber parts, here's the 21'st century idiots guide to timing that makes up for age and wear:
If you only have one hose attached to your distributor pull it off, you don't need to cap it (no need on single hose systems), if you have 2 pull them both off but plug the one facing the distributor (retard). Now connect the timing light to the battery and the #1 plug wire according to the timing light instructions (and set it to zero if it's the type with adjustments). Now start the engine and shoot the timing light at the scale and pulley (hold the light in your right hand), see the mark on the pulley?, good. Now using your left hand slowly open the throttle on the side of the carb or throttle body (move it the same way the cable pulls it) and watch the timing mark VS: the scale, the mark on the pulley should start to move to the left, open the throttle a little more and continue until the mark no longer moves to the left any more (yes it's loud, isn't it?), give it a bit more throttle just to confirm the mark is staying put at wherever it stopped (hopefully 28 degrees) and then release the throttle. If it stopped at 28 move on to carb/FI adjustment, if it went past or didn't make it all the way loosen the distributor clamp a little and turn the distributor a few degrees one way or the other (you pick, if it's worse go the other way), repeat until you find the happy spot and don't forget to tighten the clamp when you are done (make sure the distributor is pushed down all the way into the case too). Avoid loose fitting clothing and long hair near spinning fans and belts too, no need for a trip to emergency. Now put the hose back on, pack up the timing light and move on to carb or FI adjustment. |
Thanks, that helped clarify the procedure.
The other day we drove the Bus about 350km with our local VW club. There was one small issue, sometimes the engine would splutter for a moment as if not getting fuel. This happened three times during the trip. Once while the Bus had been running for about 25km, and twice just after starting the engine and driving off.
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Ian
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Joined: August 28, 2002
Posts: 4930
Location: 713
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to move this over here instead of the stupid question thread because it's now getting more complicated.
| Ian wrote: |
Quick question...workin' on a 77 FI Bus...if it starts and runs but won't idle, but then when I unplug the TSII and it does idle....bad TSII??
AFM pin's out and continuity tests fine. Double relay checked...good. I have gone through all hoses and vac lines. |
The Bus still won't idle normally. It will start for half a second, then shut off. It acts like the AFM isn't turning on the fuel pump, but I jumped fuel pump at DR, so that's not an issue.
Things I have done up to now:
Connected S-Boot, checked for cracks
Connected black/red wire to switch side of starter
Connected vac line from t/b to side of air filter (running 009 so no T in that line)
Replaced vac line from hard part to decel valve, all vac lines look good up to FPR and to plenum
Connected black wire that goes to double relay to + side of coil
Rebuilt AFM with spare circuit board...specs out and continuity tests fine now
Replaced hose from AAR to S-Boot, clamped AAR elbow
Fuel pressure test today steady 38psi...is that enough??
Replaced TSII (brand new Bosch)
Replaced 3/4 phenolic on intake and glued it on
There sounds like there is a very loud exhaust leak on the 3/4 side, and if I spray brake cleaner near the intake, it stops making that noise! Is it possible that this thing has a loose cylinder head?? I'm going to check it out.
It still holds a really lumpy idle with the TSII disconnected, but it won't rev at all.
It has an electronic ignition in the 009 that I'll be switching for points/condensor to try that out.
Any and all ideas welcomed.
This video is when it is idling with the TSII disconnected.
Link
I'm thinkin' whatever is making that noise .....
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Ian
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Joined: August 28, 2002
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Location: 713
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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I tugged on the exhaust manifold underneath and the head didn't move, so I'll assume it's not about to fall off. I think the noise is just a really...really, bad exhaust leak.
I noticed one of the fuel lines from rail to injector was cracked so I'm going to cut the swedge and fix that up. O-rings are still soft and pliable, surprisingly.
While thinkering in the engine compartment, noticed that the AAR elbow is actually busted in half...sunnofa....
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All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| If the noise is from an exhaust leak you should be able to feel pulses of air with your hands as you move them over the pipes and joints. Since the noise tends to abate when you use the spray, that would indicate there is a vacuum leak as well. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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A crack in the crotch of the F pipe between the cylinders isn't uncommon but is hard to pinpoint, sounds like the already rich condition was finally killed off by the spray and the noise stopped when it no longer fired.
So......how's it run with that AAR hose fixed?
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Ian
Samba Moderator
Joined: August 28, 2002
Posts: 4930
Location: 713
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| If the noise is from an exhaust leak you should be able to feel pulses of air with your hands as you move them over the pipes and joints. Since the noise tends to abate when you use the spray, that would indicate there is a vacuum leak as well. |
Yeah, there "feels" like theres a few exhaust leaks for sure. Some really strange stuff going on with this one...
Waiting on new AAR elbow to come in the mail.
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All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
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Ian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Update! The Bus is done and off on it's own. It was an automatic so a few little quirks here and there, but I got the kickdown and full throttle switches working at the same time, so that's really great!!
-Replaced AAR elbow, used a VW elbow
-replaced intake S-boot
-replaced rubber Y fitting for brake booster to intake plenum and decel valve hose
-compression test all four cylinders around 100psi
-ignition tune up
-new points
-new condensor
-timing set at 30* total advance BTDC
-replaced mini fuel lines from rail to injector for #3 and #4 injectors
-replaced 3&4 injector o-rings
-continuity tested the engine grounds as well as tightened up the connectors from the harness
-replaced hose from AAR to intake plenum
-replaced phenolic spacer under 3&4 intake
-rebuilt AFM with different circuit board, pins out good
-new cylinder head temperature sensor
-replaced throttle body
After all that, it still wouldn't idle. So one of my friends came over and we adjusted the wiper arm on the AFM...aha!! Purrin like a kitten!!
That crazy popping sound was a major exhaust leak that didn't really effect the way it was running.
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All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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hello gents,
fighting with a 81 Van that we have had the engine out of.
upon reinstallation and subsequent attempt at starting the fuel pump will not turn off even w/ the key out of the ignition.
only after you try to start it will the fuel pump continually run.
it will do this w/ two different DRs & AFMs.
feeling like it's something stupid here....help me out 
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Red Fau Veh
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Joined: September 07, 2012
Posts: 3037
Location: Prescott Az.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Bad ignition switch or the relay. Maybe an injector is stuck open.  fuel cut-off solenoid bad?
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1971 Deluxe Sunroof Bay 1905 stroker, dual idf40's, 74mm Scat forged crank, engle 110 cam. CB 044 heads, AutoCraft rockers, chromoly push rods
1973 Orange transporter stock type 4 with dual 40 Dellortos and Empi single quiet pack
1969 Adventurewagen blue whale Gene Berg 1776 built by Dave Kawell dual 36 DRLA's, Vintage Speed exhaust, Bosch 019 screamer
1961 Swivel Seat camper, L345 grey
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Red Fau Veh wrote: |
| fuel cut-off solenoid bad? |
where is the fuel cut-off solenoid?
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'd start by double checking the wires to the starter from the DR, and maybe the DR ground too. (that's for the problem, not the cutoff solenoid  )
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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knew it was something simple.
the grounds under the plenum were not hooked up 
still looking for the idle cut-off solenoid though... 
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quit looking. You don't have one. |
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pgtips
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Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 860
Location: essex
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: AFM |
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Hi,
scored a nice 012 afm for my bus and fitted it up yesterday, the replacement one I had in it already following a stuck flap problem wasn't that bad but the new one is a gem.
so I have 3 now, orig stuck flap afm, its replacement which is used and a nice new one, rebuilt by the looks of it but very nicely done.
I have noticed a difference in the smoothness and the overall feel which got me to wondering are these mated to individual busses.
Would changing over the circuit board, spring etc from my original AFM (stuck/bent flap) which was known to mate with my engine, to my not so smooth AFM, be a worthwhile move.
It just strikes me as to "just how different can they be", these aren't complex so whats the likelyhood i'll achieve anything for the effort.
mines (the AFM) is the 012, 6 pin, 75 to 76 bus, 2.0ltr. Possibly the afm i just took off would have been for a 1800 version, or maybe there was a difference between auto and manual.
Any heads up would be appreciated, what I don't want to do is knacker my now spare one, it may not run as nicely but they are extremely hard to find here in the UK.
PG
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1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy - Subaru converted
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift
Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721 |
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rustbus
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 2078
Location: alberta
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: AFM |
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| pgtips wrote: |
Hi,
scored a nice 012 afm for my bus and fitted it up yesterday, the replacement one I had in it already following a stuck flap problem wasn't that bad but the new one is a gem.
so I have 3 now, orig stuck flap afm, its replacement which is used and a nice new one, rebuilt by the looks of it but very nicely done.
I have noticed a difference in the smoothness and the overall feel which got me to wondering are these mated to individual busses.
Would changing over the circuit board, spring etc from my original AFM (stuck/bent flap) which was known to mate with my engine, to my not so smooth AFM, be a worthwhile move.
It just strikes me as to "just how different can they be", these aren't complex so whats the likelyhood i'll achieve anything for the effort.
mines (the AFM) is the 012, 6 pin, 75 to 76 bus, 2.0ltr. Possibly the afm i just took off would have been for a 1800 version, or maybe there was a difference between auto and manual.
Any heads up would be appreciated, what I don't want to do is knacker my now spare one, it may not run as nicely but they are extremely hard to find here in the UK.
PG |
I installed a brand spankin new AFM too at the beginning of this summer.
the unit was super lean out of the box. required some serious adjustment to get it back to where the one it replaced was for mixture. easy for me to know as i have an AFR gauge onboard
what im getting at: have you tuned it? i would not expect it be ready to run your bus without adjustment.
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Red Fau Veh
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Joined: September 07, 2012
Posts: 3037
Location: Prescott Az.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no help but I am glad you posted because I needed a fix.
Link
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1971 Deluxe Sunroof Bay 1905 stroker, dual idf40's, 74mm Scat forged crank, engle 110 cam. CB 044 heads, AutoCraft rockers, chromoly push rods
1973 Orange transporter stock type 4 with dual 40 Dellortos and Empi single quiet pack
1969 Adventurewagen blue whale Gene Berg 1776 built by Dave Kawell dual 36 DRLA's, Vintage Speed exhaust, Bosch 019 screamer
1961 Swivel Seat camper, L345 grey
| Touch Nicks Thing wrote: |
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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WHATS THE PARTS NUMBER FOR THE 78 afM FOR A MANUAL TRANS? ITS IT THE (sorry caps lock) 020? i need to find a new one and both mine are missing the covers with the PN on them.
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2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
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busdaddy
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Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: AFM |
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| pgtips wrote: |
| these aren't complex so whats the likelyhood i'll achieve anything for the effort. |
Oh yes they are even though it's not readily visible, there's subtle adjustments you just can't do at home, if you start to build a Frankestien AFM you'll just end up with a pile of usesless parts and possibly toast your engine finding out your work was in vain.
Send your worst one off for professional rebuild, there's some things just better left to the experts with the correct tools and knowledge.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
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Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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thanks BD, i got the info i needed...and then some
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
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