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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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FYI - I took a bunch in for a professional rebuild with a well known rebuilder and none passed smog even closely. Some were lean, some were rich and some were all over the place. I finally got some excellent cores of my own and had those rebuilt then they worked well. Once I got specs off a NOS one and tuned the rebuilt cores to the same specs as the new one they worked flawlessly.
018 and 020 are the same. The have the same tuning and parts inside. RAtwell and Tyoe 2 have lists if the correct AFM and ECU numbers.
DO NOT tune the AFM's by changing spring tension except for one to three clicks max. The spring tension acts like an accelerator pump by determining how much more fuel is added during acceleration. The ECU converts the speed the door opens at just like an accelerator pump linkage converts how fast the throttle is opened. The slider should be used to change the air to fuel across the range. |
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pgtips Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2009 Posts: 860 Location: essex
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Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: Re: AFM |
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rustbus wrote: |
I installed a brand spankin new AFM too at the beginning of this summer.
the unit was super lean out of the box. required some serious adjustment to get it back to where the one it replaced was for mixture. easy for me to know as i have an AFR gauge onboard
what im getting at: have you tuned it? i would not expect it be ready to run your bus without adjustment. |
I hear you RustBus/BD, no I haven't made any adjustments, I was figuring they would have loads on the production line and not long to do much adjustment but its probably more than I am able. Fortunately my 'new' one is great so that will stay good for the rest of our days. At least I now have a fall back in my hands if I need it.
cheers
A good cuppa PG _________________ 1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy - Subaru converted
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift
Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721 |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12687 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Ok this might be candidate for the Stupid Thread, but I've read a lot and I can only get so far without seeing any of these parts in front of me. I'm going to help a friend fix her "won't idle" FI bus next week, and I have all the basic tools but I have some questions-
I have a 50psi fuel pressure gauge, but what kind of nozzle/hookup does the test port have? My gauge just has a fuel line nipple- should I bring a few feet of line with me?
I'm anticipating a vacuum leak- are the sizes of vacuum lines the same as a carb bus? _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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old DKP driver Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject: newby FI helper |
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Asiab3,
7mm wrench for test port on driver side manifold along with a gauge with
7mm hose and a clamp. The hose fits the test port and a clamp is insurance.
Intake leaks are the same procedure as any other vehicle. I PREFER a propane torch.
Basics 1st ! Dwell, timing, Idle speed
Also, bring a fire extinguisher. _________________ V.W.owner since 1967 |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12687 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: newby FI helper |
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old DKP driver wrote: |
Asiab3,
7mm wrench for test port on driver side manifold along with a gauge with
7mm hose and a clamp. The hose fits the test port and a clamp is insurance.
Intake leaks are the same procedure as any other vehicle. I PREFER a propane torch.
Basics 1st ! Dwell, timing, Idle speed
Also, bring a fire extinguisher. |
Great! I'm teaching them valve adjustments, basic tune-ups like you said, and then going hunting for the leak. Two extinguishers at the ready. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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MadFrankie Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2011 Posts: 19 Location: Bournemouth
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: Misfire |
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Hi guys,
Hoping you can help me. I'm pretty competent with the FI system having wrestled with it for a few years now but this one has stumped me.
The van had been stored over winter and after a service, (oil, points, timing etc), she started no problem.
I then took her for a few drives to wipe the cobwebs away and found that when accelerating she would judder for a few seconds before carrying on, (almost like when you slip the clutch), and she also misfires quite a lot.
I checked the AFM and saw that the track was worn so gave it a little clean and moved the board a couple of mm to give it new track to work with.
The juddering has all but stopped now except when I'm going around 40ish so I'm assuming that is just a sticking point and that the AFM is on the way out, (unless you wonderful people can suggest otherwise).
The main worry I've got is the misfiring, it does it almost constantly every couple of seconds when I'm off the accelerator, (ie slowing to a junction so foot off accelerator and onto brake), and it is drinking fuel like crazy.
I'm guessing it's an air / fuel mix problem but I have no idea where to start with the FI on this one.
I know I'm getting fuel into the rails, the pump and filter are fine, I can't feel any air leaks in the lines, the AFM seems to be working better now or is it totally on the way out so sensing less air that is going through making the engine run rich?
I've got a new temp sensor on the way to see if it's reading the engine temp wrong so I should be able to rule that out at the weekend.
It idles and drives ok otherwise, perhaps it hunts a little when idle, (which is why I checked for air leaks).
Any ideas would be greatly received. |
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sallittjob Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2010 Posts: 340 Location: North NJ
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Probably not your issue as it sounds more severe but I've had a random misfire before which turned out to be the result of low battery voltage. Since it's been sitting for a while and you say it happens when you're on the brake (lights on so more draw on the battery) I'd take a look into it. _________________ 57' Beetle Deluxe
1192cc SP
71' Super Beetle
1968cc DP
73' 412 Sedan
1679cc FI
75' Westy
1800cc FI |
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pgtips Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2009 Posts: 860 Location: essex
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I think it would be worthwhile giving yourself a clean sheet to start diagnostics and checking all your contacts and terminals are clean, storing over winter might have led to a bit of build up.
A longer run might also help, I've got a vw based kit (ok carbs but you get the idea) and it hates being left for too long, runs like a dog, splutters, coughs, bogs down but give it 10 miles and happy again.
whatever you do don't start adjusting things yet, if it worked ok before it got laid up then the fault is not settings if you know what i mean.
My guess is electrical, clean and reset your points, do any coil checks you can or suggestion 2, fuel filter - when was the fuel filter last changed. Imagine all that sediment that's floated down and caked on, now getting re agitated.
But then you say drinking fuel like crazy, so that would lead to flooding or excess fuel possibly in your S boot.
CSV could be stuck which might add to above troubles.
Either way I'd
1. Get your electrics cleaned up first and try to do as much as you can, buy some good crimpers, worth their weight in gold.
1a. check coil and all spark plugs connected.
1b check points.
2. Replace fuel filter if necc and as already being down, TTS2
3. Get familiar with CSV diagnostics.
Good luck, fingers xd for you.
PG _________________ 1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy - Subaru converted
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift
Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721 |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4532 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Misfire |
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MadFrankie wrote: |
I'm guessing it's an air / fuel mix problem but I have no idea where to start with the FI on this one. |
Sorry, no guessing allowed.
Please refer back to the first post and formulate a systematic approach to your problem.
Checking the track for continuity/dead spots can be easily done, but AFMs don't wear out just sitting there
I doubt your problem is FI related.
Fought one for half a day a while back (crank, no start) and it turns out the customer had installed the battery backwards _________________ 71 Ghia A/S - 88 Van A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T |
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CoastalAirCooledVW Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2012 Posts: 1882 Location: Mckinleyville, CA (Humboldt County)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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New to fuel injection and I need to find an AFM for my 77 bus that caught on fire and melted the AFM. What years will work for a 77? Is there a difference between Federal and CA models? Part numbers would be greatly appreciated too. Thanks _________________ 1966 Velvet Green Standard |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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CoastalAirCooledVW Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2012 Posts: 1882 Location: Mckinleyville, CA (Humboldt County)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I need an air flow meter not an ECU .
Reading on ratwell he claims that the 018 and 020 AFM can be interchanged....can anyone confirm this?
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FISwap.html _________________ 1966 Velvet Green Standard |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: |
New to fuel injection and I need to find an AFM for my 77 bus that caught on fire and melted the AFM. What years will work for a 77? Is there a difference between Federal and CA models? Part numbers would be greatly appreciated too. Thanks |
018 or 020 will work (very late 1976 thru 1978 model year). NOS can be found for around $250 - $300 usually on ebay if you show patience. If you want a used one $60 is about what they sell for. You will never know how a used one will work until you try it. Usually both new and used need to be adjusted once it is on your bus and running. I would avoid rebuilt ones, I had 3 or 4 before finding a good one. A NOS "need it today" price will set you back $600 for one. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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yes - FIC who rebuilds them said the internal parts are the same. My 1977 runs a 020 and it kicks butt plus passes smog. I've also had a used 018 on it at one time and it ran the same. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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There is also an Automatic Transmission and a Manual Trans. model. I think (!) the only significant difference is the Auto keeps the idle higher... which may affect your Smog Check. The P/N can be referenced through the vendors. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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you won't find a better answer than this. We all miss Karl, his knowledge - and his kindness - both live on here:
Karl wrote: |
...
The AFM [air flow meter] has these numbers:
74-75- early 76 up to vin 2x6 2077 583 build date to the end of 12/75:
0280 200 012 [6 pins]
mid 76-77 from vin 2x6 2077 584 and build date 01/76:
0280 200 018 [7 pins]
78 and 79 Fed:
0280 200 020 [Vw subbed the 018 to this one and it also fits in place of the 018]
79 Cal:
0280 200 022 |
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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CoastalAirCooledVW Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2012 Posts: 1882 Location: Mckinleyville, CA (Humboldt County)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info SGKent. Is there still a reliable rebuilder of air flow meters or have they all stopped rebuilding them? _________________ 1966 Velvet Green Standard |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: |
Thanks for the info SGKent. Is there still a reliable rebuilder of air flow meters or have they all stopped rebuilding them? |
I thought the rebuilt ones gave me trouble. I went thru three or four. Others here wrote and said they had similar issues too. It is not the rebuilders who are at fault - it is that the returned cores are troublesome and often on the verge of being worn out. The strip inside is tuned when they are made and a new part does not repsond the same as the original tuned one. VW has new ones at their classic site under part number 022906301D. They are 372 EU which is $458 USD plus shipping. If you can't afford it, then IMHO you are better off trying to find someone who will sell you their used one for $60 and guarantee it - that or offer them $20 and shipping if they won't guarantee it.
This is a photo more or less of the board inside. They wear thru. There are many spots where the circuits are tuned. Each of those black marks on the rectangular traces are marks where a laser burned the circuit away to tune the strip. That is done after they are assembled. If you can find a new strip they are not tuned and don't work well. I tried it. I was warned it wouldn't work but tried it anyway. Didn't work well.
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: |
Thanks for the info SGKent. Is there still a reliable rebuilder of air flow meters or have they all stopped rebuilding them? |
call eric from norcal relics, he has some. he parts out baywindows if you recal. _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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CoastalAirCooledVW Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2012 Posts: 1882 Location: Mckinleyville, CA (Humboldt County)
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
CoastalAirCooledVW wrote: |
Thanks for the info SGKent. Is there still a reliable rebuilder of air flow meters or have they all stopped rebuilding them? |
call eric from norcal relics, he has some. he parts out baywindows if you recal. |
Oh yea I'll give him a call, he always has a ton of stuff _________________ 1966 Velvet Green Standard |
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