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TGOT
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Joined: January 30, 2008
Posts: 281
Location: Ashland OR
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 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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My buddy tools around with those Japanese imports and he has the "Smoke Wizard" for when he makes custom tubing for intakes with turbos and the like. It was quite a cool thing, I was very lucky to know him. Its not cheap but this time it was invaluable. Here is a youtube promo vid. If you skip to 4:40 busts out the UV lamp:
http://youtu.be/BkOSHc7JaKE
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71 Super Sold
76 Westy Sold
99 Beetle TDI Sold
81 Rabbit Diesel Sold
79 Sunroof Bus Sold
I miss all of them but I still have a
76 Adventurewagen Hightop FI |
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MadFrankie
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Joined: May 27, 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Bournemouth
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hi guys, bit of an update on my problems.
I've gone through every wire and earth that is about, done every voltmeter / light test and all seems to work out fine.
Ive gone back to the ignition system to make sure I'm not missing something there and so far it all seems fine, power to coil, dizzy and I'm getting a spark. The plugs were a bit sooty but were cleaned with an emery and the spark, while not great, was there.
The plugs did smell of fuel and when I cleaned them, put them back in and turned the engine there was fresh fuel on them again.
So, the only thing I haven't done is a pressure test. I got my gauge yesterday so am planning to test this weekend.
My question is where is the best / easiest / cleanest place to add the gauge to test and is there anything I'm missing? I've been working on finding out what's wrong for so long I'm sure I've gone FI blind! |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 17544
Location: State Capitol CA (Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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I went back and read your posts. Did you
(1) check to see if the plug on the back of the AFM is connected?
(2) try the TEASPOON of fuel in the S-Boot to see if it will start on that?
The fuel pressure is tested easiest on the left fuel rail by unscrewing the plug. Use clamps on the hoses as the pressure is enough to blow a hose off and spray fuel.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench
formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.
bdamico on GF wrote | Quote: | | "When I was your age I'd plan out all sorts of stuff for the future and almost none of them came true. Just wonder if it's worth trying to be a crystal ball. " |
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MadFrankie
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Joined: May 27, 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Bournemouth
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
Plug on back of afm is connected. I even tested it for correct voltage etc as per the troubleshooting PDF in the first post.
Haven't tried the teaspoon, will have a go with that tomorrow. If it starts what does that imply?
I did think that might be the best place to put the gauge but thought id check before pulling anything off the fuel lines. Anything I should expect or do prior to removing other than clamp the line?
Ps, sorry if my questions seem dumb, I've never had an FI camper before, and I'm keen to keep it rather than go back to the comfort of carbs if possible. |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 17544
Location: State Capitol CA (Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MadFrankie wrote: | Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
Plug on back of afm is connected. I even tested it for correct voltage etc as per the troubleshooting PDF in the first post.
Haven't tried the teaspoon, will have a go with that tomorrow. If it starts what does that imply?
I did think that might be the best place to put the gauge but thought id check before pulling anything off the fuel lines. Anything I should expect or do prior to removing other than clamp the line?
Ps, sorry if my questions seem dumb, I've never had an FI camper before, and I'm keen to keep it rather than go back to the comfort of carbs if possible. |
You will get it solved. If it starts with the fuel in the S-boot then we cross off ignition and compression from the list of possible issues.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench
formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.
bdamico on GF wrote | Quote: | | "When I was your age I'd plan out all sorts of stuff for the future and almost none of them came true. Just wonder if it's worth trying to be a crystal ball. " |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 23882
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| MadFrankie wrote: | | The plugs did smell of fuel and when I cleaned them, put them back in and turned the engine there was fresh fuel on them again. |
Remind us how you determined you had spark and the plug wires were installed correctly?
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK. |
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Tymothyson
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Joined: January 22, 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: Fuel Injectors |
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I have included a few pictures. Basically, all of the injectors spray, however, the #3 cylinder injector tip is pretty chewed up/melted, and the spray pattern is a wider, heavier cone shape.
The #4 Cylinder injector is also melted, but spraying leaner than the #3 injector. I have pictures, but I don't know how to post them here.
Could this be flooding a cylinder to two and then causing the engine to die at idle after 10-20 seconds? [img]Desktop[/img][/GVideo][/code][/youtube] |
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Westfabulous
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 4083
Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors |
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| Tymothyson wrote: | I have included a few pictures. Basically, all of the injectors spray, however, the #3 cylinder injector tip is pretty chewed up/melted, and the spray pattern is a wider, heavier cone shape.
The #4 Cylinder injector is also melted, but spraying leaner than the #3 injector. I have pictures, but I don't know how to post them here.
Could this be flooding a cylinder to two and then causing the engine to die at idle after 10-20 seconds? [img]Desktop[/img][/GVideo][/code][/youtube] |
Well, what you describe doesn't sound good, but it can easily be fixed. The melted caps are replaceable, and you can get the injectors refurbished fairly inexpensively.
Having said that, please do me a favor. Pull the electrical connector off of your Cold Start Valve. Tell us if this solves your problem. If so, you have an easy fix.
Does this happen primarily when the engine is cold, or does it happen even when the engine is hot?
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Tymothyson
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Joined: January 22, 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have already checked the cold start valve. It is not leaky. It also works when it is supposed to.
I have this problem whether the engine is cold or hot. I cannot press the gas pedal or else the engine dies. I wish I knew how to post the pictures so you could see.
I will try to run it tomorrow morning with the plug off the cold start valve, like you suggest. |
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Westfabulous
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 4083
Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Tymothyson wrote: | I have already checked the cold start valve. It is not leaky. It also works when it is supposed to.
I have this problem whether the engine is cold or hot. I cannot press the gas pedal or else the engine dies. I wish I knew how to post the pictures so you could see.
I will try to run it tomorrow morning with the plug off the cold start valve, like you suggest. |
Try the CSV plug tomorrow on a cold start. A CSV that tests fine can still have a problem, even if the gate opens and closes. Don't assume that it is okay until you try removing the connector.
How long has this been going on? Is your AFM plug connected? The only thing that I can think of that would change within the first 20 seconds of starting is the CSV opening. 20 seconds isn't really even long enough to trigger a change in TS2.
If your injectors are damaged, it would be wise to get them refurbished.
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Amskeptic
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Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 7130
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Tymothyson wrote: |
I have this problem whether the engine is cold or hot. I cannot press the gas pedal or else the engine dies. I wish I knew how to post the pictures so you could see.
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Then forget about the cold start valve. If you have a symptom that crosses the cold/warm matrix, you need to look elsewhere. If it were the cold start valve, you would have a good bit of performance when the engine was cold, wouldn't you?
If the engine is not responding to a change in airflow, i.e. dog dead bogging, then get into the airflow meter box. Hit the throttle with your left hand, watch the wiper. Does it move instantly and freely counter-clockwise then go back as you let go of the throttle? Now leave the engine idling. Move the wiper only about 1/4" without touching the throttle. It should make the engine rpms drop in either direction, ccw is rich, cw is lean.
IF the engine rpms do not react to your nudging the wiper, you likely have a little terminal finger in the afm plug that has been shoved backwards due to a sloppy "cram the damn plug on" hurry, (been there) or a break in the wire at the plug that is impossible to see (do a continuity test between the plug terminals and the ecu!) (seen that, too).
Colin
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MadFrankie
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Joined: May 27, 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Bournemouth
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Remind us how you determined you had spark and the plug wires were installed correctly? |
Hi,
The bus has been running before and was perfect. Since it won't start I've checked power to the coil, taken the coil - dizzy lead off and grounded it while the engine it turned over and seen the spark. Done the same at the plug. I get a spark every time and while it isn't white it is orange at the edge and white / blue in the middle. I've cleaned the plugs and checked the gap, all ok.
I've also checked the points etc.
I've checked all wires at the dash, light come on correctly etc and I know it's not the starter as the engine turns.
I have thought about changing the plugs and points etc as as far as I can see the PO changed them back in '07. so probably due a change. I've also thought about a new coil as I can't see it's ever been changed. But for this exercise I know I'm getting enough of a spark to ignite.
Have I missed something here? |
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MadFrankie
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Joined: May 27, 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Bournemouth
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
You will get it solved. If it starts with the fuel in the S-boot then we cross off ignition and compression from the list of possible issues. |
Cheers, need some positive thinking. I'll give the s boot a go in a bit. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 23882
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| MadFrankie wrote: | I have thought about changing the plugs and points etc as as far as I can see the PO changed them back in '07. so probably due a change. I've also thought about a new coil as I can't see it's ever been changed. But for this exercise I know I'm getting enough of a spark to ignite.
Have I missed something here? |
Nope, seems OK, don't go changing points, etc. willy nilly just yet if you do have spark, find the issue before you add some new ones. Do SG's fuel test and see what happens, you need fuel, compression and spark for internal combustion to occur properly, which one are you missing?
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK. |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 17544
Location: State Capitol CA (Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: | | MadFrankie wrote: | I have thought about changing the plugs and points etc as as far as I can see the PO changed them back in '07. so probably due a change. I've also thought about a new coil as I can't see it's ever been changed. But for this exercise I know I'm getting enough of a spark to ignite.
Have I missed something here? |
Nope, seems OK, don't go changing points, etc. willy nilly just yet if you do have spark, find the issue before you add some new ones. Do SG's fuel test and see what happens, you need fuel, compression and spark for internal combustion to occur properly, which one are you missing? |
x2
don't add more variables. Keep a smile and we will get this bus cruizing again. One of my thoughts was like Colin it may be the AFM or connector on it. We really need that fuel test to confirm if fuel delivery or mixture is an issue.
I do have one question that kind of puzzles me. You mention that it dies when you crack the throttle. Does this mean that you can start it anytime you want but all it will do is sit there and idle forever? Or are we seeing it start, idle for 10 -20 seconds and die at idle too? Can you start it anytime you try and then let it idle forever?
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench
formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.
bdamico on GF wrote | Quote: | | "When I was your age I'd plan out all sorts of stuff for the future and almost none of them came true. Just wonder if it's worth trying to be a crystal ball. " |
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MadFrankie
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Joined: May 27, 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Bournemouth
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
I do have one question that kind of puzzles me. You mention that it dies when you crack the throttle. Does this mean that you can start it anytime you want but all it will do is sit there and idle forever? Or are we seeing it start, idle for 10 -20 seconds and die at idle too? Can you start it anytime you try and then let it idle forever? |
Hi,
Think that's the other poster whos having throttle problems. Mine has either worked perfectly or not at all.
Also, good point about introducing more potential problems. I'll hold off changing the points, plugs etc.
I think compression will be fine, it was last checked as part of me buying it back in June 2011. The reading was 120, 115, 115, 120
I'm guessing it will be the pump, it does seem that everything I do is leading towards it. I'll get the pressure gauge on it tomorrow, (any work got rained off today). |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 17544
Location: State Capitol CA (Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MadFrankie wrote: | | SGKent wrote: |
I do have one question that kind of puzzles me. You mention that it dies when you crack the throttle. Does this mean that you can start it anytime you want but all it will do is sit there and idle forever? Or are we seeing it start, idle for 10 -20 seconds and die at idle too? Can you start it anytime you try and then let it idle forever? |
Hi,
Think that's the other poster whos having throttle problems. Mine has either worked perfectly or not at all.
Also, good point about introducing more potential problems. I'll hold off changing the points, plugs etc.
I think compression will be fine, it was last checked as part of me buying it back in June 2011. The reading was 120, 115, 115, 120
I'm guessing it will be the pump, it does seem that everything I do is leading towards it. I'll get the pressure gauge on it tomorrow, (any work got rained off today). |
It will be the pump, ignition switch, loose wire, ground or one of the relays. I'd put money on that. Buses that work perfect then don't then do have something simple.
_________________
Steve aka Merlin the Wrench
formerly Steve's Racing and Engine Blueprinting. Wrenching since 1967.
bdamico on GF wrote | Quote: | | "When I was your age I'd plan out all sorts of stuff for the future and almost none of them came true. Just wonder if it's worth trying to be a crystal ball. " |
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pgtips
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Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 456
Location: essex
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| TGOT wrote: | | I've developed a new problem with my 79 Federal. The idle has become quite lopey. Fluctuates between 650 and 950 give or take. If I set the idle to about 1200 it smooths out but any lower than 1000 it starts the fluctuations. I've been dealing with it for a about a week and it was a real sudden onset. |
Not sure how you got on with this but one of the first problems I had on my Bus ownership journey was something called hunting (crap idle), caused by eratic/faulty TTS2 (I think that's what it is called, so long ago but a search for 'hunting' will turn it up, its late and I really can't recall exactly)
Cheap replacement, prob worth doing anyway, you'll need a long 13mm socket for your wrench to fit it. Solved my idle problem immediately, like you it happened quite quickly |
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Westfabulous
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 4083
Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| pgtips wrote: | | TGOT wrote: | | I've developed a new problem with my 79 Federal. The idle has become quite lopey. Fluctuates between 650 and 950 give or take. If I set the idle to about 1200 it smooths out but any lower than 1000 it starts the fluctuations. I've been dealing with it for a about a week and it was a real sudden onset. |
Not sure how you got on with this but one of the first problems I had on my Bus ownership journey was something called hunting (crap idle), caused by eratic/faulty TTS2 (I think that's what it is called, so long ago but a search for 'hunting' will turn it up, its late and I really can't recall exactly)
Cheap replacement, prob worth doing anyway, you'll need a long 13mm socket for your wrench to fit it. Solved my idle problem immediately, like you it happened quite quickly |
Good idea. It seems to want more air than it's getting, as seen by the fact that it evens out when you add air at the idle screw. I would also check TS2.
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TGOT
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Joined: January 30, 2008
Posts: 281
Location: Ashland OR
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:12 am Post subject: |
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I solved the problem, it was a faulty injector that while still tested ok leaked air at the metal plastic seam. I did change out the TS2 though just wasnt it this time. Thanks.
_________________
71 Super Sold
76 Westy Sold
99 Beetle TDI Sold
81 Rabbit Diesel Sold
79 Sunroof Bus Sold
I miss all of them but I still have a
76 Adventurewagen Hightop FI |
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