Type 3 engine Megasquirts-2 Conversion Project

Willo357

Today i received my MS-2 kit and i have trigger wheels (supersuk) and COP in the mail.

My plan here is to detail my test engine conversion to MS-2 control.

Whilst i have a little experience with electronics from school i would consider myself to have little experience when it comes to the box of jelly beans that is MS.

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Stay tuned this could get ugly.

supersuk · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:06 am Post subject:

Sweet! I hope it turns out to be a very fun and informative project. What is this going into and some specs of the engine please!
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supaninja · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:27 am Post subject:

Sweet! I can't wait to see this up and running.
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Nick
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Max Welton · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:21 am Post subject:

You can do it!

What is the test engine?

Max
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Willo357 · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject:

My test engine comes out of my 71-Notch. it has had a very hard life as is evident from the melted engine lid seal and even the boot seal Shocked

Last year I did my first engine rebuild on it (is it still an engine rebuild if dont put any new parts in it?) Anyway it is a 1835 (92mm pistons) according to the service dockets it was bored out in 1982 and had some funky oil filter and cooler added. (i took this off because i needed to pass a roadworthy test)

I drove it hard for 5000 miles, must of that was back and forth from the city to the country. (3 hour drives) I recently took the engine apart again to see what it looked.

cracked 3,4 head and i think a crack in the case. it was still going strong so im in the process of putting it back togeather with new cam followers.

With my MS im going to begin with ignition only because both my engines have carbs. i have a stock intake runner i got from a local vw guy but no hardware.

i figure the ignition is the most likely to blow up an engine so once i get that sorted i will add the fuel system.

supaninja · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject:

Sweet dude, I'm not sure about t3 motors but I know for a fact t4 motors are tough to blow up with questionable timing. Sounds like a full learning experience.
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Nick
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krusher · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:39 am Post subject:

With just ignition its wont want much different/is any timing than the stock distributor curve, maybe a little less advance will be needed due to a stronger spark.

Where you can really get the benefit from the programmable ignition is when you go to FI, with the more much more precise control over fuel ratios from the FI the ignition can be dialed in to perfection as a combo.

I would check those 1835 barrels for roundness there the super thin ones and like to warp when over heated, I would replace them with a 1776 kit.
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Willo357 · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:36 am Post subject:

Got started on the soldering today. i made the power circuit (i think) then i got the shakes so thought i should stop for tonite.

had a package on my doorstep when i got home tonite as well
ooooh that trigger wheel is super smooth. i love me some lazar cutting

HenrikL · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:19 am Post subject:

I'm mostly a stock guy myself, but have always been a little interested in a Megasquirt conversion of a Type 3 engine. Will you use the stock Type 3 FI intake?

vdubin · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:37 am Post subject:

Here is what i know about MS... I have s 95 golf with an added turbo on ms1v3. Timing alone wont necessarilly kill the engine but it can lead to hot spots and pinging if your mix is on the lean side. Just be conservative on your timing and use all of your map. Set some timing a little high below your idle to help recover from a stumble. A good start would be 10-12 deg to start to about 28-30 at wot. You can set less timing at idle but a/c motors like a little more timing down low. I also like to set my idles at 950 to 1000 the off idle starts are a lot better and the milage lost is nothing significant. If you wire in your O2 sensor you can monitor your current mix and get an idea of what your engine is running like so you will have a general idea of a good starting mix. Keep your maps smooth...

Remember all grounds go to the motor and it is a good idea to add a second ground to the engine.

Pm me if you have any questions on ms. Supaninja knows a thing or two as well and if you talk nicely to him he might share his msq. Then you will have a ball park tune to play with as far as your ve and timing tables.

supersuk · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:06 am Post subject:

Glad to see the trigger wheel got to Australia safely.
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Willo357 · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the advice and support guys, it's good to know there is plenty of help out there. actually looking at the posts on my thread i realize why the samba is so great. There are posts from people in Hawaii, USA, UK and Sweden all helping a clown from Australia. (and its only the first page)

good on ya samba ! Cool

P.S. i wish i got the stimulator Twisted Evil

supaninja · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject:

It's all about helping each other and keeping these cars on the road, even if Ray and Tram scoff at using a aftermarket ECU Twisted Evil

, they are just set in their way Wink

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Willo357 · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:

So i havnt got much done for a few days because homework has kept me snowed in. Rolling Eyes

Next week i should finish the MS off and begin mounting the trigger wheel.

I do have one confession to make though. i got distracted by the GF when soldering those tiny weeny transistors in and put 3 of them in the wrong way around ..... Twisted Evil

after a while and some disgusting language i got the cheeky littl buggers out.

To get them out i had to put a lot of heat into them though ... do you think that would have wrecked them? they look ok but i also had to hold them with pliers as there was no way i could hold them with my hand.

supaninja · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject:

transitors or diodes? Ish happens, I used to work on electronics for a few years and stuffed many many boards, but I somehow an IC in the wrong spot and frogot to stuff 2 other ones. I didn't figure that out until I tried to start the motor and had no fuel...derr to me.

I use a cheap "solder sucker" to desolder stuff. It's just a big suction thing and works awesome.
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Nick
Megasquirted Type 4 powered Notch http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Willo357 · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:36 am Post subject:

Yeh Ninja i was talking about those tiny little transistors Q14,20 ect but i finished the board off today and tested some things with my multimeter and i think they are ok.

here is my board at the moment. I find the MS extra manuel is a bit slap dash. so i have a few questions to anyone who may know.

do i need to install a jumper (Link) across R43 (red circle)
Ms-extra manual tells me to link it but does not show it in the picture of the finished board

do i need to install the LED's (purple circle)
what happened to Q16 (green circle) (isnt this the ignition transistor?)
the ms-extra manual tells me to keep them safe but then doesn't say to install them.

On other news i got some more hardware today

i got a set of 4 of there from ebay for $100 they are new and appear to be well made (they are heavy and solid feeling)

i would really appreciate some input as im finding the ms manuals a little confusing,

other good news is that im getting my grandfathers CRT oscilloscope which should help for something? Razz

supaninja · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject:

this might clear things up a little more.

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/using_bosch_bip373s_with_megasquirt.htm

msextra explains it pretty good here http://msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#groundpull

scroll all the way down to the bottom "Driving two coils from the same spark output e.g. wasted spark coil on plug (COP)"

I need to open mine up to see is if jumpered r43, I have a transistor in the q16 slot but I can't remember what I added. I do know for a fact that it hasn't been there the whole time. MS1 comes with a bip373 to power one coil, but you got 4 coils now Smile

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Nick
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vdubin · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject:

yes, you need to jumper the resistor. most people place a substantial wire under the resistor so it will not be seen from above. also you do not need to install the LEDs. as the outputs from MSNSe take them over and you will just end up desolding them anyway.

Willo357 · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys, That confirms my thinking, also i did a bit of searching on the net and found that people have done it that way and some in even stranger ways but it all seems to work.

Willo357 · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:53 am Post subject:

Finally had some time for the engine.
Got the case all cleaned up today. ill be putting it back together tomorrow.


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