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dickskid1
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Joined: November 09, 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Buffalo NY
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 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: Wiring an altenator from scratch |
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| I have a sandrail that had a gen. on it. I put an altenator on it but need how to wire it. Never had a alt. lite on it so as of now it is not charging. I only had 1 wire from starter and i seen i should have 2 to the post? IM just not sure everything i find is for gen. |
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Darth VeeDub
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Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Okay, I am NO expert, but I have just replaced my 12v gen to an alt. not long ago and I just rewired my 64.
There are 2 connectors on a new style alt. The stud connector goes 2 places...10/12 ga wire runs from stud connector to the Pos. term on the starter, there should also be a 12ga wire that connects to the Ignition switch.
Now the bladed connector is for your charging system warning light. I found out the hard way, if the wire from the bladed connector on the alt. does NOT go to you indicator bulb (and it MUST be a good bulb) it will NOT charge. So I have been told.
Hope that helps. Personally, I would grab a buggy wiring harness and just replace it ALL. It is quite the job, but pays out in the end, once everything is wired up. (still figuring out my brake/turn signals) |
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dickskid1
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Buffalo NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ok that is what im told. But i have no light on it how does it get hooked up? it does start but does not charge. does the 2nd wire from stud need to be hooked up? and if so were on ign. and thanks so much Rick |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5157
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Exciter circuit (the light for the alternator) is simple.
1 wire from the "run" terminal on the ignition switch to one wire on the bulb (it doesn't matter which one). Then from the other wire on the bulb run a wire to the tab on the alternator. Thats it.
Don't use an LED. Use an incandecent bulb. |
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Darth VeeDub
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Joined: October 25, 2010
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| jspbtown wrote: |
Exciter circuit (the light for the alternator) is simple.
1 wire from the "run" terminal on the ignition switch to one wire on the bulb (it doesn't matter which one). Then from the other wire on the bulb run a wire to the tab on the alternator. Thats it.
Don't use an LED. Use an incandecent bulb. |
Heh, thanks! jspbtown, I forgot that wire from the bulb to the switch (fresh rewire using a universal buggy harness). Still working out the kinks...(indicator lights, front signals/proper relay, pass headlight needs mounted/wired, and brake light issue-faulty switch?)
I will slap in a wire there and see if I get my alt. indicator light to function.
cheers! |
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Mike_CNYBuggy
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Joined: November 29, 2010
Posts: 628
Location: Syracuse, NY
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| mikesmith72 wrote: |
I have generators on both my cars.
Let me get this straight. You have to wire the indicator to a working bulb but if the bulb doest work it doesn't charge and you have no way of knowing that it's not charging because you have no indicator light?
Is there a way around that? |
I don't think its a problem with generators not charging but just indication of charge. With alternators it is different, they DO need a shot of 12 volts through indicator light to initialize... Always check bulb when starting up.... Turn key "on" bulb should light, if it does go ahead and start up.... IF it does NOT light, you have a problem... It's called the "power of observation"...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Basic wiring for BOSCH AL82 and Chinese imitation 2 wire alternators.
Also More Alternator information here....
http://www.mydune-buggy.com/home/dl_files/AlternatorBasics.pdf
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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dickskid1
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Joined: November 09, 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Buffalo NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| on my switch i have a center post marked st then 3 posts acc, bat, ign what one would i use? Thank all |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5157
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:50 am Post subject: |
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ign
In essence it supplies power to you "ignition" which is needed to run the car.
So "run" = ign |
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Mike_CNYBuggy
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Joined: November 29, 2010
Posts: 628
Location: Syracuse, NY
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dickskid1
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Joined: November 09, 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Buffalo NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Then i have another problem i had it there and the bulb stays on? |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| dickskid1 wrote: |
| Then i have another problem i had it there and the bulb stays on? |
It should stay on with the key in "on" position and engine not running.... After engine starts up and is spinning up generator/alternator lamp should go off.... IF it does NOT you have a problem.... Most likely bad Alternator (assuming its wired correctly) ...
Its simple...
Key on, "lamp on" generator/alternator not functioning.
Key on, "lamp off" (engine running) generator/alternator is functioning .
Both scenarios assumes lamp and indicator circuit (wiring) are in working order...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| mikesmith72 wrote: |
So no voltage regulator?
And it would be "the observation of no power" lol |
IF its a AL78 Alternator it is EXTERNALLY regulated and requires additional regulator....
IF its a AL82 it is an internally regulated Alternator and no external regulator needed....
If its GENERATOR it requires a regulator....
A regulator for generator is NOT the same regulator used with alternator requiring a regulator....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5157
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| After engine starts up and is spinning up generator/alternator lamp should go off.... IF it does NOT you have a problem.... |
I would just add that sometimes you have to "blip" the throttle to get it to go off. On several of my prior cars I had to jab the rpms up to around 2k before the light would go off and stay off. |
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Smyrnaguy
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Smyrna, NC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| I use a voltmeter in the dash to tell if the battery is charging. The idiot light for the alternator is in the engine compartment wired from the + terminal on the coil to the exciter terminal on the alternator. This way I can tell from either end if its charging and I don't need another wire going up front. |
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manxbugguy
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Joined: August 20, 2011
Posts: 21
Location: Ajax
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Resurrecting an older post as I've scoured the forums and it looks like my situation is unique.
The PO of my buggy wired the B+ from the alternator (AL78) to a voltage gauge in the dash instead of running it back to the starter. There is another wire from the starter to the other side of the voltage regulater. There was no "idiot light".
When looking into the problem of my battery not charging, I hooked up a temporary light to the voltage regulator. It came on when the key was turned but, never went out - it dimmed only.
Looking at the diagram that Dale posted and checking that against my wiring, I hooked up the wire from B+ to the wire off the starter. The light went out. I'm going with the assumption that charging the battery through the v-gauge is BAD.
Next steps:
1) get a better multimeter so that I can check the charge at the battery (charging/not charging).
2) do I/can I bypass the voltage guage in the dash and connect the alternator (B+) directly to the starter - which in turn is connected to the battery?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
btw, a complete re-wiring is in the works but, right now, I just want to get this on the road!! |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yes you can run B+ (main charge lead) directly to starter
D+ controls/indicates charge conditions through ALT lamp...
Since gauge is just a indicator of system condition (state of charge in relationship to voltage) you can wire plus (+) side of voltage gauge to any 12 volt source, preferably one that is switched on/off with key and minus (-)side of gauge to direct ground...
In sketch below it shows how a voltmeter should be wired...
Voltage gauge should give you indication system is charging or not if wired correctly and you can determine if alt is functioning...
Considering what other wiring "things" that may be strange, you need to verify everything functions before venturing out after making any changes
Simple Digital volt/ohm meter for $19.95 usually is accurate enough for most automotive work...
I have a $200 digital volt/ohm meter with all the bells and whistles and yet my tool of choice (most of the time ) is a $3.99 test lamp...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3221/2700449466_c7ca691904.jpg
Its only failing is it can not read subtle voltage variations...
IF you system is a true AL78 (external regulator) it will also need a ALT lamp (idiot lamp) to initialize alternator ...
http://www.mydune-buggy.com/dl_files/AlternatorBasics.pdf
See page 4 ... ALT lamp wires the same if used with either AL78 or Al82, just connects at different place on alternator end...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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manxbugguy
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Joined: August 20, 2011
Posts: 21
Location: Ajax
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: ammeter vs voltmeter |
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Thanks Dale,
Once again, you jump and come to the aid of those who have much to learn.
I cut the wire from the B+ terminal of the alternator (Bosch AL78) and connected it to the terminal on the starter. Fired her up and the "idiot light" went out as soon as the engine caught.
Now, onwards and upwards. My goal is to get it road worthy for the summer and work on one thing at a time. Hopefully, I can hold off until the Fall and tackle the complete re-wiring at that time - I've been following those posts as well.
If the VW gods are on my side, my next posts will be about getting this certified and on the road. |
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cdnltded
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Joined: March 13, 2015
Posts: 381
Location: Pincher Creek, Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring an altenator from scratch |
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| good reference thread |
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