Starter or Battery

[Blue66]

Ok I have a 66 beetle that is still 6 volt, and gave me a starting issue this morning (about 40 degrees in garage, 30 outside). When I went to start, no go. dash lights fine, headlights dim just not cranking. This afternoon started with a delay after turning the key (after screwdriver on starter). Checked the load on the battery while starting with key and went from 6.30 down to 5.85 and started then went back up to 6.40. I have cleaned all wires and checked my grounds. Des this sound like the battery or the starter going bad?

[gt1953]

How old is the battery? Do you have a 6V charger? is so charge it up and see. Do you have a Hydrometer, if so check the specific gravity of each cell on the battery. Should be 1250 or above for a good battery cell on the hydrometer.
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[Blue66]

The battery is about 3 years old, no Hydrometer though, I thought I would recheck all the wiring today, supossed to be nice later, 70's. The starting has been an issue for the last month o so nothing major. When I turn the key it takes a few seconds (20) befo the starter would engage.

[Hammarlund]

The load test you performed on the battery implies it is good, so it might be a good idea to look elsewhere for now. Even so, a three-year-old battery is always problematic, and as a fellow six-volter I would strongly suggest springing for the Optima.

I apologize if you already know this, but simply cleaning and tightening the connections is not always good enough for troubleshooting purposes; one must often take measurments, as well.

Here are two tests you can perform with a voltmeter, if you haven't done so already:

(1) Check the voltage actually present on the starter terminal while cranking. It should mirror the battery voltage, that is, start about above six and drop to around 5.8. If it drops appreciably more than the battery voltage, you still have a bad connection somewhere.

(2) Place the positive probe of the meter on the negative terminal of the battery, and ground the other probe on the starter housing itself. Use the ohmmeter function of the meter to make sure you are getting a good ground on the starter housing. Try to crank. If you see the meter deflect while cranking or trying to crank, your ground system is still suspect.

[drscope]

Make sure your tranny ground strap is in good shape and clean under the ends!
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Blue66]

The Optima may be a good idea, the battery I am using is a napa brand for 6 volt tractors. Even today at 70 plus degrees it started rather hard at first. Plus it seems as though when I turn thekey or the relay there is always a delay before it turns over. I may try the voltage test on the starter first though.

[63beryl]

Test the battery before replacing anything. I had two 6 volt batteries go dead on me in 13 months. I bought an optima 6 volt and my starting problems are a thing of the past. As others have stated..clean and check your voltage at every connection. 6 volt cars need shiny connections to get enough juice to work properly.

[Blue66]

Okay back to some old problems.
new optima battery. starter would sometimes engage and sometimes not. Turn the key and about 6 seconds later it engages most of the time. sometimes not at all.

New starter, turns the engine over very slow, when engine is cold starts right up. When engine is hot will not turn over fast enough to even attempt to start. Engine cools down, then starts right up. I have checked all my grounds and they are fine and shiny.

Could my new rebuilt starter just be bad? Even when I put he screwdriver on it, it turns over slow.

Oh by the way this is still 6 volt and otherwise runs fine. Thanks for your thoughts.

[KTPhil]

What shape is your starter bushing in?

[Blue66]

Less than a month old.

[63beryl]

You can cross the starter lead with the battery lead and the starter will spin like an electric motor...i.e. the starter will spin, but the car motor won't. If the starter doesn't spins freely, you have a starter bushing problem or something inside your rebuilt starter is too tight. Did you remember to grease the bushing?

[Blue66]

Yes I did grease it, I was thinking the starter seemed to tight, is that possible. It sat on the shelf a long time before I bought it. I may take it back tomorrow, and exchange it for another. It turns even slower when the engine is warm.

[Cusser]

It's not uncommon for a starter motor to have increased electrical resistance when hot. I'd try a jump start when the engine is hot and won't start or spins slowly.

Some manufacturers have even fitted a heat shield around the starter to minimize such heat from the engine getting to it.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Blue66]

The new rebuilt starter spins slowly even when cold, I think what I will do is exchange it anyway, I don't want to jump start it every time I drive a mile and shut the car off. Which is what happened yesterday am.

[crvc]

Muir's book showed how to boost power to the starter using a relay from an older American car. I lost my copy but I remember doing it to a '63 bug and it worked well. You can buy an after-market relay for bugs for that purpose and I have one in my 12 volt bug. I think I paid $50 but the Muir relay was $10. Actually it was free since I took one off my brother's wrecked '65 Mustang.

crvc

[Dr OnHolliday]

Those ford remote relays are about $15 nowadays. They work well on any (12v) car. Not positive about 6v...should work I think
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[Blue66]

I see Tractor supply has them for ford 6 volts for about $12.00. How are they wired in? Did a search and can not find the wiring diagram. I did take the starter back and they are ordering another one, should be in on Thursday or Friday.

[Blue66]

Which solenoid switch by ford Is the correct one, there is one with 3 connections and one with 4, both are 6 volt. Do the older ones (3) only work on positive grounds.

[KTPhil]

Before adding a relay (a dubious addition), try something first. Next time it acts up, try bypassing the wiring as follows: Out of gear, wheels blocked, e-brake on tightly, level ground, ignition key to run position... crawl under the right side with a big ugly screwdriver and short the solenoid terminals-- from the push-on terminal to the big stud/nut. If it still acts up, the relay will do nothing, since your screwdriver has just donew what the relay purports to do (make the heavy current bypass the ignition switch wiring). If it DOES make it work correctly, then check your wiring and switch. Often it's just a bad terminal or pinched wire.

[crvc]