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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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 Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I only have one side done right now, but here's how I did it. I used the jigs for alignment and welded in a couple big pieces of 3/16" steel for support. I still want to add a piece on the bottom of the bracket. That's just weld primer, I'll sandblast and paint when done.
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gimpy60
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Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 668
Location: Just down the road
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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good pix, good work. do you think it would benefit anything to put a verticle brace along the top and/or bottom of the horn since so much is carved away? just a thought. yours looks good tho.....
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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| gimpy60 wrote: |
| good pix, good work. do you think it would benefit anything to put a verticle brace along the top and/or bottom of the horn since so much is carved away? just a thought. yours looks good tho..... |
The metal for the horns isn't very thick, about 1/16" or so. The plate I put in is 3/16" and the bracket is a little less than that. I it will be pretty solid. I suppose you could add an internal brace though. I'm just going to box the bracket in on the bottom horizontally which should stiffen it up more by supporting the other side of the bracket.
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gimpy60
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Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 668
Location: Just down the road
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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and there is a support on the rear of the engine, suppose that will help some too.....we are there then...thanx
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vlad01
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Brent wrote: |
I only have one side done right now, but here's how I did it. I used the jigs for alignment and welded in a couple big pieces of 3/16" steel for support. I still want to add a piece on the bottom of the bracket. That's just weld primer, I'll sandblast and paint when done.
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using a donor irs sub frame for the brackets make this a much neater job as they don't cut in so much in to the horn compared to the straight design of the aftermarket brackets. In fact the stock brackets only cut in a third the amount compared to these. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Somebody posted up a link to some frame horns for doing the conversion that way, but I don't remember when that was, but it was something like June or July of this year in THIS forum. I hadn't heard anything on it since though. To me, that would be the best route, as it doesn't mess up the alignment (you have to get those pivots just right). IRS is set up by the location of the trailing arm, and the pivots are what locate the arms. You have some side play with the CV's, so centering the trans isn't as crucial (still needs to be close though). This alignment issue IS why I added the body mounts for the engine hanger on my 65 Notch, and left the rear subframe alone.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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supaninja
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Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| vlad01 wrote: |
| using a donor irs sub frame for the brackets make this a much neater job as they don't cut in so much in to the horn compared to the straight design of the aftermarket brackets. In fact the stock brackets only cut in a third the amount compared to these. |
Right, they have kind of a wide V-shaped angle to them that wouldn't cut in as much. The brackets are also about half as thick as the aftermarket ones. Too late now. 
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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That would be the way I'd go, if I were doing a conversion today. Berrien has been around since at least the mid 70's, and their quality has always been very good. I'm wondering if this guy is selling it for them, or if he bought 1, and decided to not use it. Might be worth looking on their web site (Berrien Buggies) to see if they're cheaper.  I only say that, because they are a Michigan company (on Michigan's west coast), and that seller is in Ohio.
Nick, you could get Eric to modify them where they attach to the subframe, and lower or raise the trans in the car too. That way, you would have options with 091.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
That would be the way I'd go, if I were doing a conversion today. Berrien has been around since at least the mid 70's, and their quality has always been very good. I'm wondering if this guy is selling it for them, or if he bought 1, and decided to not use it. Might be worth looking on their web site (Berrien Buggies) to see if they're cheaper. I only say that, because they are a Michigan company (on Michigan's west coast), and that seller is in Ohio.
Nick, you could get Eric to modify them where they attach to the subframe, and lower or raise the trans in the car too. That way, you would have options with 091. |
It would definitely be cheaper to go this route and weld on the horns. With how I'm going: IRS brackets are about $30, alignment jigs $100 (luckily I borrowed some), steel patch material $10, much more welding, and a lot of time.
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Schiner
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Joined: July 24, 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Lenoir City, TN
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vegasquare
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Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 51
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Brent wrote: |
I only have one side done right now, but here's how I did it. I used the jigs for alignment and welded in a couple big pieces of 3/16" steel for support. I still want to add a piece on the bottom of the bracket. That's just weld primer, I'll sandblast and paint when done.
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Well done sir. I have done this to a few cars over the years and always wondered why people hack up early bodies to put in irs when this is such a slick and completly reversible method. This is how its supposed to be done. |
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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| vegasquare wrote: |
| Well done sir. I have done this to a few cars over the years and always wondered why people hack up early bodies to put in irs when this is such a slick and completly reversible method. This is how its supposed to be done. |
Thanks. I've been spending a lot of time on it. Getting close to being done. Here's a pic of the other side where I boxed in the bottom. Hope to be done tomorrow and sandblast this thing.
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vlad01
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Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Dam! thats pretty good |
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gimpy60
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 668
Location: Just down the road
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I have one more question, are the trailing arms the same as t-1? My local is out of the brackets, but I have several bugs I can hack them off of. I do have a late square to set up the jigs with too. That chicken link was just what I was looking for, thanx for it. You guys have gave lots of help on this , well going to get on it today....later
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Brent wrote: |
| vegasquare wrote: |
| Well done sir. I have done this to a few cars over the years and always wondered why people hack up early bodies to put in irs when this is such a slick and completly reversible method. This is how its supposed to be done. |
Thanks. I've been spending a lot of time on it. Getting close to being done. Here's a pic of the other side where I boxed in the bottom. Hope to be done tomorrow and sandblast this thing.
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Hopefully all that heat you put on that doesn't cause it to warp.  That's a lot of weld in a small localised area. I realise it triangulated, but still a lot of heat. That thin metal likes to move around pretty easy.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Hopefully all that heat you put on that doesn't cause it to warp. That's a lot of weld in a small localised area. I realise it triangulated, but still a lot of heat. That thin metal likes to move around pretty easy. |
I did take a lot of breaks in-between welds to let it cool. Yeah, it's on there pretty heavy. But I did pay careful attention to keep it aligned. I must of taken the jigs on and off 50 times to keep checking everything. They still fit just right after all that welding.
So here's a few pictures of the jigs. Notice the notch that has to be cut out of the jig to fit. They were bug jigs to start, gusseted to fit, then heated tubing red hot to fit to a T3 IRS subframe and relieve stress. Big thanks to Clatter for having these made and letting me borrow them.
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gimpy60
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Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 668
Location: Just down the road
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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I guess if you used a bug jig to line up with, the bug stuff must interchange. I got my doner sub out, gotta drag out the blaster damnit, I love it. Got a '71 bug pan that needs cut up, so I will soon see what will work I guess..........
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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On the jigs...
Those are the $100 jobs from Pacific Customs.
They need notched really heavy to make them fit the T3 sub.
Hence the gussets to keep them rigid.
The last step was to bolt them to an IRS T3 sub, and heat them cherry red mid-span.
This with them bolted tighter and tighter to get them perfect.
They will go on/off a stock IRS sub with NO effort.
You can see the spot where they were stress-relieved.
I might consider renting them out, but would need a hefty deposit to do so.
They were quite the project to build for sure...
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gimpy60
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Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 668
Location: Just down the road
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I got my sub bastardised. Now I need some torsion bars, wondering how much weaker the ones I robbed from the beetle torsion to get my brackets, control arms, etc. will be for the t-3. I can see the difference in the short stock ones & the bug, diameter wise. Could I use these with some kyb shox? I have a 70 doner in the back, just too friggin lazy to pull it up & remove the bars... Oh yeah, Clatter, I built the jigs in about an hour, worse part was gettin the damn centers outta the bushings.
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