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jnealy69 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2007 Posts: 4 Location: ronkonkoma, ny
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: Overheating |
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Hey there folks… I'm looking for a little help with my 1990 Vanagon GL.
Two days ago whilst driving about town, I noticed the temp gauge reporting back around 2/3 -- 3/4.
Normally, the needle runs just below the indicator light.
Now, I have very limited experience with vanagons (and vehicles in general) and no manual (it's in transit).
I replaced the thermostat at someones request, but that has not helped.
What other info would some of you kind strangers like to know in order to help lil ol me out?
Thanks in advance! |
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JPrato Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2006 Posts: 791 Location: Livonia, NY
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Since you said it is over heating while driving I would assume it is not the radiator fan. When was the last time your radiator was replaced. If you don't know I would replace it. It's a lot cheaper than an engine rebuild! _________________ Joe
87 Syncro Tin Top project
84 Westy, 2.5L Subaru power
06 Subaru 2.5 turbo in waiting
46 Cessna 140 |
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jnealy69 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2007 Posts: 4 Location: ronkonkoma, ny
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, more on the specifics… if I let the van idle it will overheat (gets up to that 3/4 mark), but it just takes a bit longer… sorry, forgot to mention that.
As to the radiator, it was replaced in May of 2007. |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Before I started throwing parts at the problem I would use an IR thermometer to verify what the gauge is telling me. Same gadgetcan be used to check he effectiveness of the radiator.
Of course, checking the basics such as coolant level and timing are necessary and perhaps already done. |
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jnealy69 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2007 Posts: 4 Location: ronkonkoma, ny
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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With a little more attention to detail, I just ran the engine and waited for the temp to increase. At temperature I never noticed the coolant flowing. Also, now the radiator fan does not come on, hrm…
(Coolant level *check*, Timing *check*, Fuses *check*)
I do not, unfortunately have access to an IR thermometer
Any other ideas? |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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The gauge can read pretty high before the fan comes on.
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I never noticed the coolant flowing. |
How would you see that? I know later vans have a different hose set-up than mine (84) is there someplace in the system where you can see coolant moving? |
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Bercilak Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2009 Posts: 391
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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IR thermometers available for relatively cheap; here's one from Harbor Freight for $50.
http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-laser-thermometer-96451.html
I have a little nicer one from Sears which I bought for exactly the same reason you need one. My Volvo 240 was showing deadly high temps on the gauge. Drove to Sears, went out and ran the car for a bit to get the gauge to show death, and pinged the intake and output from radiator. 200 and 160F per spec. Gauge was bad.
You can feel the hoses for temp by hand, but I don't like doing it myself. The IR is the way to go.
The fan on my 85 (to be fair, my electrical system is rat-chewed so a little odd/dicey at times) doesn't come on until the temp is at 3/4 or higher. Basically about the time I'm thinking about pulling over (or turning off the engine if I'm sitting at a light) the fan comes on. I dislike this so much I'm going to either change the fan to run full time, or switch it to a manual switch so I can turn it on low or high when I want. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50350
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Test the operation of your fan switch. The OEM switch even when it is working to spec will let your engine get pretty hot before it kicks the fan on. I long ago went to a -75 switch and have been happy with the fan coming on much sooner than before. On a 100° day while sitting in traffic the fan will run about 1/3 to 1/2 the time on low and may first kick on when the car slows below 5 mph or so.
The fan switch and thermostat need to be matched. For me the -75 fan switch has worked well with the OEM thermostat opening temperatures. I don't have AC on any of my vans, but if you do your results may vary. |
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msewalson Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2009 Posts: 544 Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm assuming the coolant was probably last changed when the new radiator was installed in 2007. Time for coolant change if it hasn't been done already.
Was the fan switch replaced or old one swapped over to new radiator?
Did you test the new thermostat before installing it?
What are the coolant levels in you expansion tank and over flow reservoir? Over flow reservoir is located behind the license plate.
Also test you fan resistor.
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_553_1137/fan_resistor_for_vanagon_with_ac.html
A wise man at Syncro Solstice told me that the coolant system on these vehicles is pretty simple to figure out, as long as you don't over think it. He also said to replace your expansion tank cap, thermostat and fan switch when changing out your coolant. And always hold on to your old ones because new parts don't always work right out of the box.
And like others have mentioned pick up a IR thermometer, I got mine at Lowes for $35.00.
Good Luck,
Matt _________________ 87 Syncro w/EJ22 |
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VisPacem Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 1143 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Bleed the system ? _________________ LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper
No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons) |
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jnealy69 Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2007 Posts: 4 Location: ronkonkoma, ny
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Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Hey all…
Thanks for all the replies and info.
So, the other day I took the van to have a flush done.
Still overheating.
So, I thought to myself, what if the thermostat I bought just broke after I installed it (even after checking it on the stove)?
I took it out and put it back in water again… it didn't work.
Returned it and replaced it with a new one… et voila!, it works now!
Thanks! |
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Bercilak Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2009 Posts: 391
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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jnealy69 wrote: |
Hey all…
Thanks for all the replies and info.
So, the other day I took the van to have a flush done.
Still overheating.
So, I thought to myself, what if the thermostat I bought just broke after I installed it (even after checking it on the stove)?
I took it out and put it back in water again… it didn't work.
Returned it and replaced it with a new one… et voila!, it works now!
Thanks! |
That's always a good sanity check when all the obvious answers are exhausted. My distributor is old and worn, so I bought a replacement. Didn't work. I exchanged it for another, which still didn't work. Finally, just cleaned up the old one and put it back.
Sometimes, new parts fail.
B. |
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dogcoves Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2005 Posts: 266 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I put a new 02 sensor in my 87 Westy and the temp gauge is running twice as hot as before around town. If I understand Gowesty's article on overheating right than maybe my vanagon was running to cool before. The gauge needle use to always stay just above the white. Now the needle stays just above the light and my high speed fan kicks on all the time when driving around town (stop and go). But not on highway driving, the needle stays just below the light. Here is a photo of what my gauge is reading around town when my fast fan kicks on.
_________________ Current VW: 1987 Westfalia
My Past Volkswagens:
1958 karmann ghia
1963 Beetle
1963 Westfalia
1966 Westfalia
1970 Beetle
1970 Westfalia |
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PDX_Guy Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2010 Posts: 54 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: |
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That is right where my needle sits most of the time _________________ Certified VW Newbie
1986 Westfalia Syncro |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16504 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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dogcoves wrote: |
I put a new 02 sensor in my 87 Westy and the temp gauge is running twice as hot as before around town. If I understand Gowesty's article on overheating right than maybe my vanagon was running to cool before. The gauge needle use to always stay just above the white. Now the needle stays just above the light and my high speed fan kicks on all the time when driving around town (stop and go). But not on highway driving, the needle stays just below the light. Here is a photo of what my gauge is reading around town when my fast fan kicks on.
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The gauge in my 1990 runs the same way. Normal temp is just above the white. Fan kicks on at the LED (and only goes on when I would expect it to). I don't consider that this is a problem. It is just a calibration issue. You need to consider that gauges are relative displays and although most gauges operate with normal temps at the LED, not all of them do. (for comparison on my '87 normal temp is on the top of the LED and the fan kicks on at the 3/4 mark).
That being said if your fan is going on more than it used to with the same driving conditions then something is up. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50350
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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dogcoves wrote: |
I put a new 02 sensor in my 87 Westy and the temp gauge is running twice as hot as before around town. If I understand Gowesty's article on overheating right than maybe my vanagon was running to cool before. The gauge needle use to always stay just above the white. Now the needle stays just above the light and my high speed fan kicks on all the time when driving around town (stop and go). But not on highway driving, the needle stays just below the light. |
The O2 sensor isn't going to have much affect on coolant temperature unless the system is under full load or some other kind of stress. In an engine with a normally operating cooling system it is the thermostat that determines the coolant temperature. If the thermostat starts to open at too high a temperature the coolant passing by the fan switch will be hotter and cause the fan to come on more often. Typically the thermostat will cause the temperature gauge to run somewhere around the LED, and the fan should seldom come on low or high when the van is moving over 10 MPH.
If your engine temperature "doubled" then I would guess that your thermostat was probably already failing before you replaced the O2 sensor and just got that much worse at about the time you install the new O2 sensor. Get a IR gun and determine what your engine temperature actually is. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50350
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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after
dogcoves wrote: |
I put a new 02 sensor in my 87 Westy and the temp gauge is running twice as hot as before around town. If I understand Gowesty's article on overheating right than maybe my vanagon was running to cool before. The gauge needle use to always stay just above the white. Now the needle stays just above the light and my high speed fan kicks on all the time when driving around town (stop and go). But not on highway driving, the needle stays just below the light. |
The O2 sensor isn't going to have much affect on coolant temperature unless the system is under full load or some other kind of stress. In an engine with a normally operating cooling system it is the thermostat that determines the coolant temperature. If the thermostat starts to open at too high a temperature the coolant passing by the fan switch will be hotter and cause the fan to come on more often. Typically the thermostat will cause the temperature gauge to run somewhere around the LED, and the fan should seldom come on low or high when the van is moving over 10 MPH.
If your engine temperature "doubled" then I would guess that your thermostat was probably already failing before you replaced the O2 sensor and just got that much worse at about the time you install the new O2 sensor. Get a IR gun and determine what your engine temperature actually is. If all the parts of the cooling system are working right, from about 10 minutes after start up the engine temperature should hardly vary at all summer to winter, idling in traffic to pulling steep grades. |
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juanb Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2009 Posts: 535 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Dogcoves--my 89 runs about there as well, at least in the city. During highway driving, the needle goes just under the LED.
I also noticed this happening after a coolant change. All of a sudden, the typical position of the needle was a little higher than I was used to.
I have a new thermostat, t housing, pressure cap, etc. For now, I just keep an eye on it, it doesn't seem to me like the van is running outside of operating temps anyway. Early next year, when the time comes to change the coolant again, I'm putting in a new radiator, just because I know I still have the original one in there.
So I wouldn't worry too much, if the needle doesn't go too far past that point. If you ever had your water pump belt jump on the highway, you know how fast the temperature can go up when there's no coolant circulating (I had that happen, and the needle went from the middle to the "too hot" area within 10 seconds or so). If the needle stays there, that means your cooling system is working. Just keep an eye both on the needle and on your coolant levels, and you'll be ok. _________________ 1989 Westy AT, 2.2 GoWesty.
We drove it to Argentina: http://www.vanenvan.com |
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