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BUCIOBATISTI
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2002
Posts: 6956
Location: San Diego, California, USA
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff. |
Eh Greg- Don't worry, Doug has two things he's been talking about doing. First is talk of installing a late model dual reservoir master cylinder and the other is talk of lowering the Bus and installing either 356 brakes all the way around or possibly discs. |
Is that before or after he chops the nose off his '60 23 and welds it to the back of his '55 23? |
Don't worry, whatever he does you can rest assured it will be well executed and tasteful.
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Rusting Hulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2002
Posts: 646
Location: Malvern UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff. |
Greg, what is the difference between the two master cylinders?
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64 356 C Coupe |
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54DoubleDoor
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2003
Posts: 128
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Simon,
When I rebuilt the brakes on my bus, I used later split flexi's, front and back. The lengths are fine.
I picked up a set of front NOS shoes and have re-used the old shoes on the rear as these had plenty of meat on them.
I also have 19mm cylinders on back and front.. as I had no choice, my 22's were shot! and not rebuildable, no many out there either. and I wanted my bus on the road.. so i gave it a try.. Yeah I know its not the most recommended setup to go for but its actually ok.
I have a 17mm bug master cylinder on aswell. With this combination, it actually brakes well... my plans are to fit a set of 22's on the front and obtain a correct master cylinder. However I had discovered that most master cylinders will fit.. I have a later 20mm one that could fit too!
But have heard the larger diameter the master cylinder, the more pressure required to stop.. hence my 17mm is working ok I guess.
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56 RHD UK Oval
58 RHD Oz Microbus |
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52panelvan
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006
Posts: 350
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Hi Dean,
I think thats how it works, the smaller the master cylinder the more pressure for the same foot pressure it produces. You also have a greater force or pressure from larger wheel cylinders, so a drop in the front Wcyl diameter may be some what cancelled out by running a 17mm master cyl. The only problem is that the front does a big % of the actual braking so should be bigger wheel cyl than the rears.
Mine are stock Bd setup,22 and 19 with a later bus 19mm single master cyl. The van stops ok but even with it mostly being new or nos and after it all bedded in they lack the feel of being able to produce enough pressure using my leg to actually get it to lock, like the master cylinder just doesnt produce enough pressure so i may try a 17mm beetle master cyl and i suspect (hope) that may give a better feeling and better stopping.
Cheers
Mark |
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campingbox 
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Rusting Hulk wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff. |
Greg, what is the difference between the two master cylinders? |
That was a type-o, the 356 master cylinder is 22mm. You can get them through Stoddard online, or order them through your local dealer. I've driven barndoors with 19mm master cylinders and the brakes are aweful. |
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campingbox
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| 54DoubleDoor wrote: |
| my 22's were shot! and not rebuildable, no many out there either. |
Get new stainless steel sleeves pressed into them....there are a wide variety of sources who do this or you could probably hire a local machineshop to handle it. |
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Julian Hunt
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 51
Location: Karmann Konnection
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusting Hulk wrote: |
| I have 481.5mm for the fronts and 265mm for the rear. Anybody have any info on this? |
I measured the lengths of the hoses that I used on mine:-
Fronts 485mm (slightly longer than regular 55>)
Rears 275mm
I have to say I am surprised so many people are using 2 bolt 'Oval' rear cylinders. We have the correct ones on the shelf at KK!
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campingbox
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Julian Hunt wrote: |
I have to say I am surprised so many people are using 2 bolt 'Oval' rear cylinders. We have the correct ones on the shelf at KK!
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What is the approx. cost, who are they made by and where are they made? I wouldn't mind having some spares on hand. |
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Rusting Hulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2002
Posts: 646
Location: Malvern UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| Rusting Hulk wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff. |
Greg, what is the difference between the two master cylinders? |
That was a type-o, the 356 master cylinder is 22mm. You can get them through Stoddard online, or order them through your local dealer. I've driven barndoors with 19mm master cylinders and the brakes are aweful. |
Greg, i've read the parts list and workshop manual and both indicate that 22.20mm master cylinders were only used up to chassis number 20-05208. 19.05mm after that. I know you have experience of driving with both so what was the difference when you fitted the 22mm MC? Any idea's why they changed to 19mm?
Thanks everyone else for the info.
Simon
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64 356 C Coupe |
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splitvws
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| Julian Hunt wrote: |
I have to say I am surprised so many people are using 2 bolt 'Oval' rear cylinders. We have the correct ones on the shelf at KK!
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What is the approx. cost, who are they made by and where are they made? I wouldn't mind having some spares on hand. |
Do all barndoors use four bolt wheel cylinders or did they also use two bolt ones later on? |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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UZI
Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002
Posts: 13335
Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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the shoe on the left came in a box/set of 4 brake shoes labeled bus 53-54 bus rear. any opinions?
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Extravagant Lifestyle
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campingbox
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| UZI wrote: |
the shoe on the left came in a box/set of 4 brake shoes labeled bus 53-54 bus rear. any opinions?
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Hey Gibbs, the shoe on the right looks like a regular 3/4 ton rear shoe. Are these out of the pest control panel? It's possible that the reduction box was rebuilt to accept the later stub axles, brakes, and drums. Post some more pics of the rear end. |
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campingbox
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusting Hulk wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| Rusting Hulk wrote: |
| campingbox wrote: |
| Get the 19mm Porsche 356 master cylinder from Stoddard. If you drive your bus it's worth the money. Using the later 19mm is bullshit and it works like hell. Tell Doug to rip that shit out and buy the right stuff. |
Greg, what is the difference between the two master cylinders? |
That was a type-o, the 356 master cylinder is 22mm. You can get them through Stoddard online, or order them through your local dealer. I've driven barndoors with 19mm master cylinders and the brakes are aweful. |
Greg, i've read the parts list and workshop manual and both indicate that 22.20mm master cylinders were only used up to chassis number 20-05208. 19.05mm after that. I know you have experience of driving with both so what was the difference when you fitted the 22mm MC? Any idea's why they changed to 19mm?
Thanks everyone else for the info.
Simon |
Hey Simon, I keep getting mixed up. The early bd's use 22mm, late bd's use 19mm, and post-bds use 22mm. The replacement 356 cylinders are 19mm.
I'm not sure why busses up to 20-05208 used the 22mm master cylinder like the post-barndoor busses. Maybe the metal brake pipes themselves were larger? |
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Rusting Hulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2002
Posts: 646
Location: Malvern UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Gibbs here's pics of the shoes from my bus, i believe they are the same front and back, but different holes are used for the different springs. They are 40mm wide
My rear backing plates have only two bolt holes for the cylinders (feb 55)
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64 356 C Coupe |
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54DoubleDoor
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2003
Posts: 128
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Shoes are the same front and back.. as you say you just use different holes for springs and handbrake levers...
My feb 54 panel had 4 bolt cylinder backing plates front and back,
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56 RHD UK Oval
58 RHD Oz Microbus |
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UZI
Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002
Posts: 13335
Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: |
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cool, thanks. i hadn't looked at them in a couple years. yes eh-greg, the shoe on the right is 3/4 tonner, the shoe on the left is what i was inquiring about. i hadn't been thru the brakes on the pest control panel but that is the bus i bought them for. the seller said they were
"barndoor", they looked a bit different and the price was right.
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Extravagant Lifestyle
| Quote: |
| mannys66: South Philly Van Club, only the most influential and freshest van club in the vw scene |
| Quote: |
| Cuņado: Chrome will get you home!!!!!!!!!! |
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bigbulli
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2000
Posts: 575
Location: ENGLAND
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my front shoes. They look good but were recked, luckily my old nextdoor neighbour's Dad had a company which re shoe'd old brakes 
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1954 Barndoor
1955 Oval |
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52panelvan
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006
Posts: 350
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I put Nos liners on mine, then smoked one on the way to Camberg. Outch
Rich, do you know if he had the right ones in stock or did they use some thing vw that fitted?
Incidently i used those 4 bolt rear cylinders KK do on mine, perfect fit and so far no problems, seemed very good quality.
Cheers |
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bigbulli
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2000
Posts: 575
Location: ENGLAND
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| 52panelvan wrote: |
| Rich, do you know if he had the right ones in stock or did they use some thing vw that fitted? |
Mark he didnt use either option as the asbestos rating on OG is too high and not as effective in stopping, it's a new modern compound, they are cut and fitted to size and glued to the original metal shoes 
| 52panelvan wrote: |
Incidently i used those 4 bolt rear cylinders KK do on mine, perfect fit and so far no problems, seemed very good quality.
Cheers |
Which body part did you have to sell 
What did they cost?
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1954 Barndoor
1955 Oval |
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