I finally have it. Returned it.. but still considering

[reluctantartist]

It came today.



Now I need to find out how to make the rubber parts for the steering, etc.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[mbrodie72]

awesome car. my mom had one for years! great motor and fun to drive. She got 408k miles out of it on one rebuild. My bro ran it under a truck in 1995 she cried for days LOL

[oasis]

[notchback]

I love the woodgrain on that color of car. Has anyone reproduced it? Would some of the vinyl wrap used these days work for a job like this?
_________________
Brain Trust member #13

Sad, unnecessary & cruel.

Let's quit sending money to the middle east and let them hate us for free.

[Mike Fisher]

Russ Wolfe had some Type 3 or 4 wood grain panels for sale.
_________________
http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500

[notchback]

[vwfye]

the vinyl wrap would work. they can even do the silver/black/silver around the wood grain like some of the original was.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269496&highlight=speedster <--Notch Speedster
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214907&highlight=speedster <--Piece o' Crap
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5494415#5494415 <--Beige & POR

[19super73]

[vwfye]

much shinier and mine didn't have the lower woodgrain panels. had it been that shiny with vinyl in that condition, i might have kept it on.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269496&highlight=speedster <--Notch Speedster
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214907&highlight=speedster <--Piece o' Crap
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5494415#5494415 <--Beige & POR

[raygreenwood]

[vwfye]

i never said it would be exact, it would work. btw... the car shown has a very different upper/lower vinyl on it than my car had. notice the between the wheel arches and the front/rear bumpers. mine didn't drop down that low. the kits either were varied, or this is a redo later. it looks much better than mine did in regard to flow and appearance.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269496&highlight=speedster <--Notch Speedster
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214907&highlight=speedster <--Piece o' Crap
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5494415#5494415 <--Beige & POR

[reluctantartist]

Unfortunately I am having to return it to the seller. When I inspected it, the engine was leaking oil from the oil cooler, main seal, etc. and leaking fuel lines, and old 38 year old vacuum lines, you know the deal. The main engine compartment seal was missing which is a big red flag to me. The transmission was leaking oil too which meant dropping everything and redoing the seals and hoping that the engine was ok. There was rust in the front compartment under the carpet. There was rust behind the front fenders including one spot that was going to need to be patched. Rust around one of the heater channels and ongoing rust along the seems on the under carriage along the rocker panels. Rust in the driver side floor area and around the battery tray. Plus the side window seals needed to be replaced since they are cracked. There was some electrical work that needed to be done. And of course rebuild the front end. He wanted 3500 for it (he had told me it was ready to go which is why I was ready to pay 3500) and I told him it was too much for it. Yes the paint was good but there was a lot wrong with it so I offered him 2k and he did not want to accept it. I guess these cars are destined to rust to oblivion in a garage somewhere.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[KTPhil]

[raygreenwood]

Actually you beat me to that answer. That is fairly standardconfiguration....and not really in bad shape. The front end of every type 4 is shot...unless you know its 100% (not just some parts...but all of them) rebuilt.

The rust behind the front fenders is normal....the rust hole on the right side fender near the door is fairly standard. It actually comes from having the fuel tank vent hose rotted off. The overflow fuel strips the undercoating and causes rust on the right side rear of fender.

Rocker panel rust is common...and not a structural issue...just a pain.
All hoses are considered shot usually. Leaks...same.

But I do agree...about $2000 for completeness is about what its worth. You were right to walk away if he wouldn't take it. The basics you would have needed to do...including brakes most probably....would have brought your totals to right about $3500 without paint. Sad. Ray

[reluctantartist]

I came to my price following what I have read here especially Ray's posts and the guidelines from here:
http://www.buyclassiccars.com/offsite.asp?site=http://collectorcarmarket.com/menus/makes.html

When I was told it was ready to go..I expected it to be in the condition that my westy was in when I was told it was ready to go: everything had been worked on within the previous 5 years including a transmission rebuild, fuel lines, brakes, etc. I guess that was because it was being used and not sitting in a garage getting 'lot rot'. I may still try to see if he would maybe take $2500 just because I really want a 412 so I would purchase it with the understanding I am paying too much, but getting one around here is hard to find. I don't plan to sell it anytime soon, just want it to be covered by insurance.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[Mike Fisher]

Sounds like a typical buyer that thinks he can deduct $500 for every flaw he can find.
_________________
http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500

[reluctantartist]

Mike, can you explain your remark? If you think O am being unreasonable, why?
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[KTPhil]

I'm no expert on valuations, but my expectation is that given the small demand for what is today an unappreciated and undesirable car (knuckleheads!), its price value is not much above transportation-level. Given the special care and hard to find parts, even a clean, rust-free (not show) car may not fetch much over 3-4 bills. Subtract what is needed to get it to that condition, and the offer of $2-2500 is probably not out of line.

Me? I'd love to have a clean Type 4. As much as I love my Type 3 (and I really do!), I would also appreciate what the Type 4 represents: the final design iteration of the air cooled, rear-engined principle for passenger cars, but with at least the starting touches of more modern design sensibilities like safety, room, comfort, handling, etc.

But we who appreciate the Type 4 are rare and that depresses the market considerably.

I may be off on the exact values, depending on location, but the point is that the price is worth it if the buyer thinks so, regardless of what the seller thinks.

[Mike Fisher]

You just don't find these cars that nice very rarely. The seller probably has plenty of money invested in the car. I'm sure he thinks it's a fair price, but not a cheap price. I didn't try bargaining down my '69 when I found it 600 miles away. I've found plenty of things wrong with my square, but still don't regret paying the full asking price. (More than $3500)
_________________
http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,71,71,71 AT,72,72 AT Parts
56 & 57 oval ragtop $2,500

[reluctantartist]

A type 3 has a much higher value than a type 4. Lets compare it to other type 4's. If I pay $3500, I still have to about $1500 into it to make it reliable and safe to drive. Because of the rust it will still be worth less than $3500. As it is right now yes the engine turns over and I can drive it forward with oil leaking everywhere and the smell of gas and exhaust fumes inside the car, and a fuel pump that stays running as long as the key is in the on position, and what sounds like either a brake dragging or a wheel bearing. If I knew I was dealing with type 3 it would be different then as I put in the work it it would show that in its value and would be easier to insure as well. I want to drive this thing not flip it, etc. The superficial stuff like the clock, dash cracks,seat tear, are what I expected. But for $3500 I would expect the fuel lines to have been replaced and vacuum lines replaced (not be the 37 yr old originals), an engine compartment seal in place, and the transmission and engine to not be leaking so much oil/fluid. I figured I would have to do the front end so as long as most of it was still decent that was ok with me. I guess you can tell I am disappointed.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.