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VWheeler
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:25 pm    Post subject: front spoiler Reply with quote

where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super
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cookrw
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: front spoiler Reply with quote

VWheeler wrote:
where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super

lol. Do you mean a new front clip? Or something like an air dam?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: front spoiler Reply with quote

VWheeler wrote:
where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super

Why in the world would you want one? All it does is add drag--there's no way a classic Beetle can go fast enough to generate enough down-force to make it worth the drag.

I think some auto show, Top Gear maybe, took some measurements, the aerodynamic down-force of an after-market spoiler on a standard car was less than the weight of the spoiler, so you're better off just putting weights in the front luggage compartment.

Craig
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jamboguru
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11265&highlight=front+spoiler
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owdlvr
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: front spoiler Reply with quote

gevmage wrote:
VWheeler wrote:
where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super

Why in the world would you want one? All it does is add drag--there's no way a classic Beetle can go fast enough to generate enough down-force to make it worth the drag.


Uh...you wanna back up that opinion with actual data? No, you can't? Oh, how about I provide you with some actual data then...

</sarcasm>

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(click the image to see the full size version) on Gerrelt's website. http://www.gerrelt.nl/index.php

On a 1303 (curved window super) that would be:
4% reduction in drag
2.3% theoretical increase in top speed
1.5% reduction in fuel consumption (mixed driving)
64% reduction in front axle lift

There is a very real and beneficial result from adding a well designed lower spoiler to a beetle. Perhaps not to everyone's style tastes, but a measurable benefit.

-Dave
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Joel
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awww Dave you beat me to the punchline Laughing

I'll also vouch for the huge improvement they make with highway stability.
Had one on my bug for years.

have a look on SBO for the Kamei group buys.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have recently bought a NOS spoiler just like the one on the pic, My intention is to reproduce them. Price as yet unsure dependant on materials cost, It will however come out cheaper than the one in the first link im sure.

Watch this space.
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gevmage
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: front spoiler Reply with quote

owdlvr wrote:

Uh...you wanna back up that opinion with actual data? No, you can't? Oh, how about I provide you with some actual data then...


D'oh! Ok, let me first state that I'm trained as a scientist and actual data trumps all. Thank you for the example, which includes a photo that makes my actual error plain.

Quote:

There is a very real and beneficial result from adding a well designed lower spoiler to a beetle. Perhaps not to everyone's style tastes, but a measurable benefit.

-Dave

There's a key word there, "lower", which along with that photo made me realize I was thinking and talking about the wrong thing (with apologies to the original poster).

I have apparently become victim to a common error in terminology about automotive aerodynamic devices. The wikipedia article on automotive spoilers has a paragraph addressing my confusion in terminology (which means lots of people have a similar confusion):
Quote:
Spoilers for cars are often incorrectly confused with, or the term used interchangeably with, wings. Automotive wings are devices whose intended design is to generate downforce as air passes around them, not simply disrupt existing airflow patterns.


So please allow me to take everyone's correction and restate my original post.

What I believe I'm remembering from Top Gear is that WINGS on a car don't become effective until the 100 to 120 mph range; slower than that, and they're just drag and weight. A downforce wing on the front of a Beetle would look very silly and not do you much good. I still think that's true, but I was completely mistaken about the terminology.

An air-dam style spoiler on the lower front of a Beetle I expect does have a positive effect, as pointed out by the other posters in this thread. In fact, given the fairly good numbers quoted in those posts, I might well look at one for my own 72 SuperBeetle as I work on taking it out on the highway more.

Apologies to the original poster for my mistake in terminology. Thank you to the other posters for the correction and education.

Craig Steffen
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an option from Creative Car Craft. The front air dam is the last item on the page.
http://www.creativecarcraft.com/whaletai.htm
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19super73
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that Kamei didn't manufacture the spoiler any longer and the SBO group buys were kaput. Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19super73 wrote:
I thought that Kamei didn't manufacture the spoiler any longer and the SBO group buys were kaput. Confused


Kamei havent suplied these for at least 20 years , there are still a few out there. If you look but prices are rising with their rarity.
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Antonio Trejo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These genuine VW spoilers are made for Standard Beetle, I am not sure if fit in a Super.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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VWheeler
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does the spoiler still have the same benefits if the car is lowered 2 inches?

still, where can a find a new one?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwrobert wrote:
19super73 wrote:
I thought that Kamei didn't manufacture the spoiler any longer and the SBO group buys were kaput. Confused


Kamei havent suplied these for at least 20 years , there are still a few out there. If you look but prices are rising with their rarity.


They were doing minimum number special orders over the last years. They were available but I understand that now they have even decided to cease that practice.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VWheeler wrote:
does the spoiler still have the same benefits if the car is lowered 2 inches?

still, where can a find a new one?


Nah that one is just for looks, if you have a close look at a Kamei you'll notice it's a properly designed air-dam.

Those ones are just made to look like newbeetle bumpers.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antonio Trejo wrote:
These genuine VW spoilers are made for Standard Beetle, I am not sure if fit in a Super.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Id say these were replacement bumpers rather than spoilers,
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VWheeler
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


im looking for one f these
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats the one im reproducing,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how's the reproduction going? I have cash in hand if that thing performs as well as the Kamei original.

EDIT: According to the SBO spoiler thread, Kamei still makes the spoiler, but the group buys have stopped.

If there is anyone here who represents Cip1, Airhead, Wolfsburg West, et al, I'm rather sure there is a large market for these spoilers. Since you're importing stuff from Germany anyway, I'd look into it.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mouldmaking and Prep should be done in 2 weeks, Made in 2 layers of woven sheet matting so should have similar flexibility as original.

I can produce these in plain gelcoat or pre colored in base colors such as red, white or black.
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