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VWheeler Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2010 Posts: 473 Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: front spoiler |
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where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super _________________ 74 1303 |
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cookrw Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2009 Posts: 873 Location: Augusta, KY
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: front spoiler |
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VWheeler wrote: |
where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super |
lol. Do you mean a new front clip? Or something like an air dam? _________________ '71 Super 'Vert
'84 Vanagon GL (w/ Sunroof!)
'96 Jeep Cherokee |
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gevmage Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2008 Posts: 1066 Location: Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: front spoiler |
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VWheeler wrote: |
where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super |
Why in the world would you want one? All it does is add drag--there's no way a classic Beetle can go fast enough to generate enough down-force to make it worth the drag.
I think some auto show, Top Gear maybe, took some measurements, the aerodynamic down-force of an after-market spoiler on a standard car was less than the weight of the spoiler, so you're better off just putting weights in the front luggage compartment.
Craig _________________ Craig Steffen
Getting my 1972 Super back on the road
Chronicling it on YT
(channel name "figuring stuff out dot net")
Physicist, pilot, computer person
craigsteffen.net |
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jamboguru Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 315 Location: Belton, Texas
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owdlvr Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2008 Posts: 684 Location: Squampton BC
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: front spoiler |
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gevmage wrote: |
VWheeler wrote: |
where can i find a front spoiler? for a 74 super |
Why in the world would you want one? All it does is add drag--there's no way a classic Beetle can go fast enough to generate enough down-force to make it worth the drag. |
Uh...you wanna back up that opinion with actual data? No, you can't? Oh, how about I provide you with some actual data then...
</sarcasm>
(click the image to see the full size version) on Gerrelt's website. http://www.gerrelt.nl/index.php
On a 1303 (curved window super) that would be:
4% reduction in drag
2.3% theoretical increase in top speed
1.5% reduction in fuel consumption (mixed driving)
64% reduction in front axle lift
There is a very real and beneficial result from adding a well designed lower spoiler to a beetle. Perhaps not to everyone's style tastes, but a measurable benefit.
-Dave _________________ ---
Instagram: @DaveHord
1971 1302s - Salzburg Tribute the #RallyBug
1958 Beetle
1975 Beetle
1973 Super Beetle
1993 C3500 with Cummins swap
1967 MGB
1963 MG Midget |
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Joel Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006 Posts: 11099 Location: NSW Australia
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Awww Dave you beat me to the punchline
I'll also vouch for the huge improvement they make with highway stability.
Had one on my bug for years.
have a look on SBO for the Kamei group buys. _________________ Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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vwrobert Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2002 Posts: 370 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I have recently bought a NOS spoiler just like the one on the pic, My intention is to reproduce them. Price as yet unsure dependant on materials cost, It will however come out cheaper than the one in the first link im sure.
Watch this space. _________________ 1973 1303 RHD Vert Project
WWW.TheVolksmeister.Com |
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gevmage Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2008 Posts: 1066 Location: Kentucky
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:47 am Post subject: Re: front spoiler |
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owdlvr wrote: |
Uh...you wanna back up that opinion with actual data? No, you can't? Oh, how about I provide you with some actual data then...
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D'oh! Ok, let me first state that I'm trained as a scientist and actual data trumps all. Thank you for the example, which includes a photo that makes my actual error plain.
Quote: |
There is a very real and beneficial result from adding a well designed lower spoiler to a beetle. Perhaps not to everyone's style tastes, but a measurable benefit.
-Dave |
There's a key word there, "lower", which along with that photo made me realize I was thinking and talking about the wrong thing (with apologies to the original poster).
I have apparently become victim to a common error in terminology about automotive aerodynamic devices. The wikipedia article on automotive spoilers has a paragraph addressing my confusion in terminology (which means lots of people have a similar confusion):
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Spoilers for cars are often incorrectly confused with, or the term used interchangeably with, wings. Automotive wings are devices whose intended design is to generate downforce as air passes around them, not simply disrupt existing airflow patterns. |
So please allow me to take everyone's correction and restate my original post.
What I believe I'm remembering from Top Gear is that WINGS on a car don't become effective until the 100 to 120 mph range; slower than that, and they're just drag and weight. A downforce wing on the front of a Beetle would look very silly and not do you much good. I still think that's true, but I was completely mistaken about the terminology.
An air-dam style spoiler on the lower front of a Beetle I expect does have a positive effect, as pointed out by the other posters in this thread. In fact, given the fairly good numbers quoted in those posts, I might well look at one for my own 72 SuperBeetle as I work on taking it out on the highway more.
Apologies to the original poster for my mistake in terminology. Thank you to the other posters for the correction and education.
Craig Steffen _________________ Craig Steffen
Getting my 1972 Super back on the road
Chronicling it on YT
(channel name "figuring stuff out dot net")
Physicist, pilot, computer person
craigsteffen.net |
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mrbigmax Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1289 Location: Modesto, CA
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19super73 Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007 Posts: 4351 Location: Cité Soleil
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vwrobert Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2002 Posts: 370 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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19super73 wrote: |
I thought that Kamei didn't manufacture the spoiler any longer and the SBO group buys were kaput. |
Kamei havent suplied these for at least 20 years , there are still a few out there. If you look but prices are rising with their rarity. _________________ 1973 1303 RHD Vert Project
WWW.TheVolksmeister.Com |
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Antonio Trejo VW Parts Dealer
Joined: December 17, 2003 Posts: 938 Location: Mexico City
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VWheeler Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2010 Posts: 473 Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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does the spoiler still have the same benefits if the car is lowered 2 inches?
still, where can a find a new one? _________________ 74 1303 |
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19super73 Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007 Posts: 4351 Location: Cité Soleil
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Joel Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006 Posts: 11099 Location: NSW Australia
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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VWheeler wrote: |
does the spoiler still have the same benefits if the car is lowered 2 inches?
still, where can a find a new one? |
Nah that one is just for looks, if you have a close look at a Kamei you'll notice it's a properly designed air-dam.
Those ones are just made to look like newbeetle bumpers. _________________ Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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vwrobert Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2002 Posts: 370 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Antonio Trejo wrote: |
These genuine VW spoilers are made for Standard Beetle, I am not sure if fit in a Super.
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Id say these were replacement bumpers rather than spoilers, _________________ 1973 1303 RHD Vert Project
WWW.TheVolksmeister.Com |
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VWheeler Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2010 Posts: 473 Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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im looking for one f these _________________ 74 1303 |
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vwrobert Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2002 Posts: 370 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thats the one im reproducing,
_________________ 1973 1303 RHD Vert Project
WWW.TheVolksmeister.Com |
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Lobotomy Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2010 Posts: 517 Location: Traverse City, MI
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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And how's the reproduction going? I have cash in hand if that thing performs as well as the Kamei original.
EDIT: According to the SBO spoiler thread, Kamei still makes the spoiler, but the group buys have stopped.
If there is anyone here who represents Cip1, Airhead, Wolfsburg West, et al, I'm rather sure there is a large market for these spoilers. Since you're importing stuff from Germany anyway, I'd look into it. _________________ Vehicles I have:
1974 Super Beetle "Reginald"
1983 AM General DJ-5
1958 Honda c-100 |
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vwrobert Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2002 Posts: 370 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Mouldmaking and Prep should be done in 2 weeks, Made in 2 layers of woven sheet matting so should have similar flexibility as original.
I can produce these in plain gelcoat or pre colored in base colors such as red, white or black. _________________ 1973 1303 RHD Vert Project
WWW.TheVolksmeister.Com |
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