The master cylinder is dead.

bradself · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:49 am Post subject:

The Raybestos MK514 kit is listed across all models and many years, in fact, as the rebuild kit for everything, T1, T2, T3, T4, FYI.

The NOS cylinder was cheap, compared to some ads here and on eBone, if it's trashed I'll send it back. Mk514 is $28 these days, but the kit at Bus Depot is $140!! Temp-ish solution until I can plumb the trunk as you've described Ray, but with a few spare kits and your advice to pull the cylinder once a year perhaps I can keep a clean one alive for longer.

The brass flap valves are on the end of the piston, correct? Is that what you're talking about? --Brad

raygreenwood · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:13 am Post subject:

reluctantartist · Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:33 pm Post subject:

Since there has been recent activity...someone on ebay has a few master cylinders left for $60 ... 411611015B I just got mine today to go into my stash.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

raygreenwood · Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:54 pm Post subject:

Bear in mind.....shelf life is short on MC seals. If its old...it may already be in trouble. If you are going to store it for a while, pull the, pistons, complete with seals. Plastic bag them loosely and submerge the cylinder in ATF fluid.

When ready to use clean with berrymans or MEK the assemble with brake fluid. Ray

reluctantartist · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:09 am Post subject:

Thanks for the info. What about covering the cylinder and seals in brake assembly lubricant instead of fluid? It would be easier to store.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

bradself · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:38 am Post subject:

raygreenwood · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:53 am Post subject:

titan3c · Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:53 am Post subject: under hood master cylinder

Ray, Your instructions and advice on the under hood location of the mc is what I've had in mind for sometime, but didn't know it could be done. I've been keeping my eyes open for a parts car with the power assist. Would the parts from one of those cars work?

raygreenwood · Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject:

Yes......and you will also have to make a small mounting plate the shape of the master cylinder mounting ears to put on the inside of the firewall so you dont get any flexing of the metal.

In the trunk....you can see the stamped circular point where the factory would punch out the hole for the pushrod.

If you just want to keep things stockish and not have to do any real recalculating of brake forces.....you could most likely install a late type 3 master cylinder in the trunk. It has the exact same stroke lengths, piston diameter and volumes....but I am not sure if the brake bias....meaning the spring tension on each piston circuit...is the same. It would be easy to measure and compare.

Also the linkage woud really be easy to make. You need to build kind of an A-frame bracket that nolts to the pedal cluster. The transfer linkage is really a pivot bar or fulcrum.....so if you wanted the linkage to be 1:1......when you push the pedal.....the rod attached to the pedal....pulls on the end of a short bar.....that has a shoulder bolt mounted exactly in the middle. The other end of the short bar has a push rod attached to it exactly the same distance away from the center pivot point of the short bar....as the pull rod is that is attached to the pedal.
You push the pedal in 1"....and the push rod that activates the master cylinder....moves 1".

Or you can make a higher ratio of movement....meaning every 1mm you move the pedal....say moves the master cylinder 2mm.......by moving the center pivot point of the short bar....closer fo the pull rod from the pedal. It increase the pedal pressure required. ...but greayly reduces how far the brake pedal needs to move to apply serious braking pressure.

Or instead of a short pivot bar.....you can use a steel disc.....with the shoulder bolt that holds it to the bracket...dead center in the disc......but with a series of holes for both the pedal pull rod and the master cyinder push rod...getting progressively closer to th3 xenter pivot point from the edge of the disc. This way you can tune ratio and rod pull length by moving the push and pull rods to different holes and then correcting rod length with a threaded turn buckle in the center of each rod just like the factory set up. Ray

titan3c · Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject:

Thanks Ray, I'll try to absorb all this. It's a relief to know it can be done. Let me know if you are in the business of fabricating the parts necessary to do this job. BTW I was at the salvage yard in Oolagah, Ok. last week, and visited with the Lady who owns the place. It was impossible to get in the place with out a off road vehicle or a brush hog. One of our club members has a wrecker, and were going to wait until winter, and try to get in there. One of our club members knows the history of the place. He said the owner died about 20 years ago, and his wife who is in her 80's has not maintained the place, but holds onto the cars for VW people-----now it's if you can get to them. Bob

raygreenwood · Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject:

titan3c · Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:49 am Post subject:

Yep, and that's exactly why I didn't try to venture in there. The growth was way over the top of the cars. Our club member who is familiar with the place says he remembers seeing several type 4's in there. I'm anxious to see what's left of them. BTW you didn't say if you would make the parts for the under the hood mc install. I would rather pay someone to make them, than try it my self. I'll try to find a car with power boost brakes, but that will be hard to find. Bob

raygreenwood · Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject:

I will be making mine somewhere near August. Ray

titan3c · Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:15 am Post subject:

If you want, let me know what it would cost to make mine too. Bob

titan3c · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:57 pm Post subject: master cylinder removal

How do you get the mc out of there. It doesn't look to me like there is room to remove it after all is disconnected. The Hayne Manual just says "remove it" after the mounting bolts are out. Can it be pulled back far enough to come loose from the push rod?

raygreenwood · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: master cylinder removal

titan3c · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:00 am Post subject:

Thanks, but it sure doesn't look like there's room emough to pull it back far enough. I would like very much to move the mc to the trunk, but haven't figured out all the parts and linkage you described earlier. I see the pictures in the Haynes manual for the booster system, but it's hard to put all the pieces where they belong. Do you have a diagram of how you are doing it? I may have to make a trip to Des Moines and see how your doing it.

My mc seems to be working OK, but feels like it's not as strong as it use to be. I had some leakage but determined it was coming from the hose connection at the reservoir, and was running down the hose to the mc. I replaced the hose, and so far all is well. Interesting point---it's the original mc, and the leaking hoses were the original hoses. But, I know life doesn't go on for ever with the mc. Bob

raygreenwood · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:06 am Post subject:

There is plenty of room to remove the MC. Remove the feed hoses and drain them into a bottle. ...remove the output lines and wire connections...and the MC pulls bsck toward the driver maybe 1-2 inches whike angling to the right. You can also remove the snap ring from the pivot on the rod if necessary. Ray

KTPhil · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:21 am Post subject:

As a kid, I had no idea Master Cylinders were so complicated!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

heimlich · Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: The master cylinder is dead.

I've got loads of the ATE 411 611 015 B.

Anyone have any seal kits they can sell me? I like to pair the two together in case they are needed.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

	Forum Index -> 411/412	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4