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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| vw54john wrote: |
What is this fascination with Patina that seems to have developed in the past however many years? Patina is a nicer way of saying "faded paint and rust". How many people would boast that they're still wearing the same underwear they bought in 1982, with all the stains and holes intact. They're WORN OUT. Patina=worn out. However, I understand that not everyone has the money and/or expertise to get an expert paint job done. And I also understand that not everybody wants one done - they just want to get in and drive and enjoy.
I know I've probably enraged some of the Patina fans out there. Sorry, but I'm allowed an opinion too.
53Ovalhead - your car is an awesome find. Had it been stored for awhile? The condition it's in, I'd bet yes. In our humid, east coast climate your car that little diamond in the rough is gonna start disintegrating at an alarming pace if you just start driving it every day and don't take care of that rust. See post # 3 to your question. Slalombuggy summed it up perfectly. |
It might bleed over from other collectible items such as furniture especially, certain metal items, guns, coins, swords etc. so what this becomes is how far deteriorated is the item? On the far end of the spectrum you have severe rust and corrosion which if left untreated will eat the car like a cancer. On the other side you have lightly used, properly maintained but its all the shades of grey in between the two extremes. I saw one example of patina where generations of mice had pissed inside an A pillar causing complete destruction. This is an example of structural damage and could even be considered as a safety item. Commercial products are available to slow rust. These are used in salt water environments and in commercial aviation. Google the product Corban and Dinatrol. Do what you can to make sure the next generation has these cars to enjoy. You are actually just a caretaker. |
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3552
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Patina or Paint my 57 Oval |
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It's all opinion/preference. I think patina looks like crap, but for those that like it, great.
I'm also odd, because I like building/modifying them more than driving them...at least in the summer here in Texas. That's why my 54 is a toy, not my primary transportation
I also believe in doing things right the first time..no cheap paint jobs, fix rust/dents properly.
Good luck with your build whichever way you go |
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ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Patina or Paint my 57 Oval |
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patina or paint is an age-old query... both are nice... looks like you have both... way to go.
One time, I was participating at a local car show and the guy next to me had the shiniest black '62 big block Chevy SS, I ever saw. I felt bad for him though as he dusted it all day... I once had a sweet 1991 black Chevy S10 and that nice paint was a lot of work, to keep clean and pretty. I got up 15 minutes early every day and spent that time detailing it as to keep it shiny and beautiful...
... all that is fine and dandy, but there is more than one valid way to do everything... my '55 bug is somewhere in between, with an epoxy satin black paint... my '63 is patina and our '55 Messerschmitt was all pretty and shiny...
... appreciating all finishes is open minded... to me, that's most important... Again, for me, it has nothing to do with cost as I paint my own cars... it has everything to do with being open minded enough to appreciate everything.
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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volksgroove
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 239
Location: Apopka, FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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to those who don't appreciate patina... I offer this... I restore high end cars for a living. I can produce show quality every single time, given the right budget and time frame. Shiny bores me lately.... but, I have to admit that "patina" is a very interprative term lately and I am not impressed with the builds that try to "produce" or "replicate" a patina look...
we found our 56 that had been stored for thirty years out of the elements. It is all OG black paint except for the right rear fender that was replaced and painted black. We LOVE the patina as it is... because it cannot be reproduced....
here is a pic of our Black Beauty...
and here is the build thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=478582
dude... your car looks good, and if you dig the patina... by all means rock it. Shiny is nice, too... but at a healthy cost. If you're not in a position to do it right, wait and enjoy her as she is...
If you want it done right... feel free to contact me about your project...
_________________
1969 Riviera "Ethel"
1965 beetle father/son build
1988 Scirocco 16v father/son build |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8503
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Dont get me wrong, I love original paint cars but the OPs car is NOT in original paint.
Like I said preserve the interior, and paint the EXTERIOR. |
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Schwing
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2009
Posts: 2506
Location: Centreville, MD
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:55 am Post subject: |
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you have a lot of hate and anger. You need to give it up
I'm in Galveston, on the gulf. 3rd coast if you will
As for assuming I've never fixed anything...almost 20 years into VW's. 30+ cars, some all show, some all daily driver. I've had my hand in some magazine cars, I've rebuilt cars from the ground up. I've put in my time, I can say without a doubt I absolutely prefer a nice original patina surface rust car to a cheepo paint job scotch brite pad and mexican blankets. I prefer it to a show car as well, having enjoyed both.
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9147
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: |
to me, original faded paint means no hidden rust, bondo, or other bullshit I can't see. Patina cars are honest.
Some people are ok with rusty BS patched together, smoothed out and made to look pretty. Not I. I've seen enough of old cars that were used and abused. Shiney paint is cool on a new car or a top dollar resto. Anything else, I prefer old, faded, and original |
That fine when you're buying a car, but when you own the car and are planning on keeping it FIX IT
If you have ever tried to fix a car with serious surface rust, you would understand why they are full of bondo, rust pits and replacement panels suck.
You all talk about keeping the car original. When you have to cut the bottom foot and a half off the car, rebuild the door posts replace the aprons doors and lids becasue you let it rust out how original it that?
I'm not saying you have to do a full on 25K restoration with a perfect paint job, but take care of the rust, seal the metal, pay Macco $250 bucks to put some crappy paint on it grab a scotchbrite pad and take the shine off of it iff you want the faded look. Grab some Mexican blankets for upholstery if you want, make your car roadworthy and enjoy it.
Keep in mind there are lots of places Beetles rust out where NO replacement panels are available. I just sent a cowl for a 54 to Ohio, not many spare cowls kicking around if you need to replace one, nor interior panels like under the rear windows.
People give me crap for cutting up an Oval for a race car, at least I'm saving it from the scrap yard, repairing the rust, and preserving the car for at least another 20 years. Once you start driving a rusty car it only gets worse and FAST especially in your climate, you West Coast boys just don't understand damp weather, road salt and shitty roads.
brad |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
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to me, original faded paint means no hidden rust, bondo, or other bullshit I can't see. Patina cars are honest.
Some people are ok with rusty BS patched together, smoothed out and made to look pretty. Not I. I've seen enough of old cars that were used and abused. Shiney paint is cool on a new car or a top dollar resto. Anything else, I prefer old, faded, and original
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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vw54john
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Cheshire, CT USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
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What is this fascination with Patina that seems to have developed in the past however many years? Patina is a nicer way of saying "faded paint and rust". How many people would boast that they're still wearing the same underwear they bought in 1982, with all the stains and holes intact. They're WORN OUT. Patina=worn out. However, I understand that not everyone has the money and/or expertise to get an expert paint job done. And I also understand that not everybody wants one done - they just want to get in and drive and enjoy.
I know I've probably enraged some of the Patina fans out there. Sorry, but I'm allowed an opinion too.
53Ovalhead - your car is an awesome find. Had it been stored for awhile? The condition it's in, I'd bet yes. In our humid, east coast climate your car that little diamond in the rough is gonna start disintegrating at an alarming pace if you just start driving it every day and don't take care of that rust. See post # 3 to your question. Slalombuggy summed it up perfectly.
_________________
Regards, John
'54 Strato Silver Oval |
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slow36hp
scott wimberley
Joined: August 09, 2004
Posts: 3113
Location: mukilteo washington
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GüteAndTite
Early Convertible Güru
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 2144
Location: Low So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Soul_VW wrote: |
| guteandtite wrote: |
if this were my car this is what I would do:
-wash it,
-vacuum it
-wax the interior exposed painted panels (dash,doors, sills, pillars)
-have a professional detailer come out and polish out and wax the exterior of the car as best as possible
-replace all rubber on the car, including windows, replace wiper blades
-rechrome/or replace all chrome that wont poilish out
-put in new floor mats, a trunk liner and wiring cover
-get all electrics working - maybe remove all wire connections one at a -time and sand wire ends to be bright and shiny and reinstall
-repair radio (possibly add input jack for ipod, AM sucks!)
-replace brake soft lines, pads and cylinders and flush and bleed system.
-replace tranny fluid, and rear wheel bearing seals
-repack all wheel bearings, grease beam
-replace front bearing seals
-replace shocks
-new tires ( Firestone black walls , or firestone 2 3/4 wide whites)
-change plugs, wires, points, cap and rotor and fan belt
-change oil, run motor, then change after 300 miles
-get a new battery
- clean the gas tank and fuel line and change filter
then roll that beast like it is! clean, mechanically sound and original!
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My .02...wax it. |
thanks for modifying the list i made, but paint would be bad juju, wax that ass and appreciate originality for what it is!
_________________
Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning
PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse" |
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Soul Built
Pimpin' Aint Easy
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 1636
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| guteandtite wrote: |
if this were my car this is what I would do:
-wash it,
-vacuum it
-PAINT the interior exposed painted panels (dash,doors, sills, pillars)
-replace all rubber on the car, including windows, replace wiper blades
-rechrome/or replace all chrome that wont poilish out
-put in new floor mats, a trunk liner and wiring cover
-get all electrics working - maybe remove all wire connections one at a -time and sand wire ends to be bright and shiny and reinstall
-repair radio (possibly add input jack for ipod, AM sucks!)
-replace brake soft lines, pads and cylinders and flush and bleed system.
-replace tranny fluid, and rear wheel bearing seals
-repack all wheel bearings, grease beam
-replace front bearing seals
-replace shocks
-new tires ( Firestone black walls , or firestone 2 3/4 wide whites)
-change plugs, wires, points, cap and rotor and fan belt
-change oil, run motor, then change after 300 miles
-get a new battery
- clean the gas tank and fuel line and change filter
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My .02...paint it. |
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tacochris
OG Paint Archeologist
Joined: November 11, 2008
Posts: 984
Location: My garage, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Man that thing is beautiful...NO REPAINT EVER. I would kill to have a car with that kinda patina. But if you see my car you would know Im a little biased. Lol
_________________
1957 Lowlight
1962 walk-thru Kombi
"Nothing will ever be as nice as original paint, no matter how much is or isnt left"
"Those that confuse hoodride with the OG paint movement definitely have their wires crossed. Its all about preservation, pulling out its true potential while hoodride is about purposely making something look like a piece of shit." -SKIM |
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caseydenise
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: The Great Swamp, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks stale air 
That is a no bs checklist. I did the same exact thing to get mine running. The only thing I did different was put in a used 40.
I always think to myself if my daughter one day (after I'm long gone) has to sell it, I bet the prospective buyer will say " man, I glad your pops kept it all original". You know what I mean. Plus we need more east coast oval on the road 
_________________
Central Jersey Volkswagen Society - President |
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stale air
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2007
Posts: 5154
Location: Senoia Ga, formally NorCal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| guteandtite wrote: |
if this were my car this is what I would do:
-wash it,
-vacuum it
-wax the interior exposed painted panels (dash,doors, sills, pillars)
-have a professional detailer come out and polish out and wax the exterior of the car as best as possible
-replace all rubber on the car, including windows, replace wiper blades
-rechrome/or replace all chrome that wont poilish out
-put in new floor mats, a trunk liner and wiring cover
-get all electrics working - maybe remove all wire connections one at a -time and sand wire ends to be bright and shiny and reinstall
-repair radio (possibly add input jack for ipod, AM sucks!)
-replace brake soft lines, pads and cylinders and flush and bleed system.
-replace tranny fluid, and rear wheel bearing seals
-repack all wheel bearings, grease beam
-replace front bearing seals
-replace shocks
-new tires ( Firestone black walls , or firestone 2 3/4 wide whites)
-change plugs, wires, points, cap and rotor and fan belt
-change oil, run motor, then change after 300 miles
-get a new battery
- clean the gas tank and fuel line and change filter
then roll that beast like it is! clean, mechanically sound and original!
get all LT on it- LOL.
oh, and make sure you post pics of the progress, cause I could use a good build thread to follow right now, not much going on on the samba. |
Wow great list, I couldnt agree more. Those are the exact steps, in that order, that I took to get my 58 back on the road when I found it back in 1995, where it had been sitting out next to a barn for the previous 23 years.
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WANTED: Henry Veale Santa Rosa plate frames
WANTED: Brittsan Motors Fresno plate frames
WANTED: Any Georgia plate frames
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GüteAndTite
Early Convertible Güru
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 2144
Location: Low So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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if this were my car this is what I would do:
-wash it,
-vacuum it
-wax the interior exposed painted panels (dash,doors, sills, pillars)
-have a professional detailer come out and polish out and wax the exterior of the car as best as possible
-replace all rubber on the car, including windows, replace wiper blades
-rechrome/or replace all chrome that wont poilish out
-put in new floor mats, a trunk liner and wiring cover
-get all electrics working - maybe remove all wire connections one at a -time and sand wire ends to be bright and shiny and reinstall
-repair radio (possibly add input jack for ipod, AM sucks!)
-replace brake soft lines, pads and cylinders and flush and bleed system.
-replace tranny fluid, and rear wheel bearing seals
-repack all wheel bearings, grease beam
-replace front bearing seals
-replace shocks
-new tires ( Firestone black walls , or firestone 2 3/4 wide whites)
-change plugs, wires, points, cap and rotor and fan belt
-change oil, run motor, then change after 300 miles
-get a new battery
- clean the gas tank and fuel line and change filter
then roll that beast like it is! clean, mechanically sound and original!
get all LT on it- LOL.
oh, and make sure you post pics of the progress, cause I could use a good build thread to follow right now, not much going on on the samba.
_________________
Official 58-60 "Early Big Window" Convertible Thread & Registry
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=426481
F&S Saxomat Automatic Clutch System Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
61-67 Delanair Air conditioning Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457944&highlight=air+conditioning
PUNCTUATION CHANGES THE WORLD: "I need to help my uncle, Jack, off a horse" is way better than, "I need to help my uncle jack off a horse" |
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stale air
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2007
Posts: 5154
Location: Senoia Ga, formally NorCal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Your 56 is incredible, no wonder you like driving it. 
_________________
WANTED: Henry Veale Santa Rosa plate frames
WANTED: Brittsan Motors Fresno plate frames
WANTED: Any Georgia plate frames
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Schwing
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2009
Posts: 2506
Location: Centreville, MD
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caseydenise
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: The Great Swamp, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I drive an og patina 56 and really enjoy it. You have to get used to people saying "So when are you going to paint it?". When I say never, I get a cocked head look. Some people just don't understand originality.
Here it is-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqUeHQnxSlc&lis...ature=plcp
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Central Jersey Volkswagen Society - President |
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