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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject: Timing Reply with quote

Okay, so the topic today is TIMING ! I have a test light, and also static timing gun. I like the gun because it is so accurate and gets me right where I need to be but I do have a dilemma.

I have a 1973 vw super beetle 1600cc dual port with a 34pict3 and a svda distributor of some sort. I'll post pictures so hopefully someone can tell me EXACTLY what distributor I have for feature reference . I've hear the steps to timing this bug is take detach the single vacuum line to the carb, plug the line and the carb jet. Turn the car on, and supposedly at idle I should be between 5-12 degrees and at full throttle 3000-3500 rpms I should be no lower then 28degrees btdc and no higher than 32 degrees btdc.. Is this correct will EVERY distributor even if it's not an 009? I would love a video link on a descriptive video on how to time this bug perfectly, also if there's no vids. If someone could just post detailed step by step instructions. Right now with my vac line all attached at full throttle 3500rpms in at about 42degrees-45degrees btdc is this normal when the hose is connected ? I thought advance stops after 2500 rpms? My understanding was my distributor was for traffic driving, for stopping. Hesitation in stop and go traffic, so wouldn't my advance be dissipated by the time highway speed or rpms come around ? Please explain, the timing is off a bit on my bug I know it, the guy that rebuilt my engine was a tard from the get go, he set my lash at no clearance on a 1600 because there's "no other way to do it " and I believe he set my advance at the highest point he could get it.. Anyway I'll post pictures, thanks and have a good day fellow bugs
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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Distributor drive is a little catywampus huh?
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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Find TDC #1 confirm firing order.
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

It looks like you have an inexpensive Chinese copy of an 034. As 1432 stated, something is off on your installation. You can pop the distributor cap off and twist the body of the distributor and orientate it more correctly so the vacuum can is pointing at the rear of the car. Then, reinstall the plug wires in the new, correct position. It's referred to as "clocking" the distributor body correctly.
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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Zunderfoldge 1432 I'm not sure on your vocabulary what you mean, tdc #1 the rotor is pointing right at cylender #1. Of course.
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Find TDC #1 confirm firing order.


Someone has provided these excellent diagrams.
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Pretty much the rule of physics (spark must start sooner at higher rpm/piston speeds so that combustion occurs at correct "time"), 28 to 32 degrees total advance at about 3500 rpm. Print diagram and mark on your pulley 30 BTDC https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/degree_wheel.php

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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

First off there is no way that I'm gonna take off my dist. Cap and loosen my dist, rotate it 90degrees tighten my dist. Put my cap on and expect to be able to start my car and run it without doing anything internally at all. That goes against all the little knowledge I have. Atleast until I hear a couple mores people out there support it. This post was just about timing, if there is an ideal dist. For my car then suggest it and tell me how exactly to do the timing on that.. Not trying to be to Blunt but these posts always seem to stray away from the topic. Thanks everyone for your help and givin suggestions ect.
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Thebugkid wrote:
Zunderfoldge 1432 I'm not sure on your vocabulary what you mean, tdc #1 the rotor is pointing right at cylender #1. Of course.


That doesn't mean anything at all.
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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

^that was helpful
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

My timing light is arriving Sunday so by then I will know exactly what to do. Thank you for "perfectly timing" this thread TheBugKid!!! I have different carbs but the same 1600 and SVDA.

My contribution to this, which is inconsequentially minimal and also subject to immediate rebuke by all but the most zen minded is this: As long as you know which plug wire is No. 1 (so you can map your remaining spark plug wires relative to that) and have enough room to rotate your distributor back and forth to fine tune the timing, it will run. Ask me how I know. ....Well, I'll tell you anyway. Mine's all backwards like yours, but on purpose, because my coil is mounted down there making everything so tightly packed there was no other way (that I could figure) to drop it in there. The bug is running! Like yours, mine just needs fine-tuned on the advancing. O.K... back to the watching and learning. Popcorn
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Thebugkid wrote:
^that was helpful


You're welcome.
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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

The fine tuning is all I'm after ATM, if the thing is on sideways and it CAN be put on the other way but doesn't NEED to be then why would I? So, if there's anyone out there that knows how to set the timing properly with this setup or has a full prof procedure I can run to get it purring just right, let me know ASAP. Would love to take her to the mountains today (will probably still anyway)
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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
...28 to 32 degrees total advance at about 3500 rpm. Print diagram and mark on your pulley 30 BTDC https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/degree_wheel.php


Hey TheBugKid, check out this part of Cusser's post, which is the nugget you've been looking for. Once you print that diagram, cut it out and hold it up to your pulley and make a mark on your pulley at 30 degrees that you can see with the strobe of your light, so you know if it is advancing to 30 degrees at 3500 rpm. Then let me know if it works so I can copycat you Sunday when my light arrives!!!

Cusser's threads speak of a lifetime of experience with owning these bugs and he recently posted a video of his recent rebuild running very smooth...
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Yes, bugkid, with the vacuum line attached, you should go all the way to 42 degrees BTDC at 3500 Rpms. The vacuum kicks in about 8 degrees at about 1200 rpm (if I remember correctly). That's why VW wanted you to disconnect and plug the vacuum line when timing at idle. If you had a high idle, you'd be off on your timing.

This is true with the original Solex 34 pict 3 carburetor, coupled with the original Bosch SVDA 034 distributor, at any rate.

Regardless, the most knowledgeable VW gurus on this site have previously responded to your thread. They have noticed that your distributor is clocked wrong (mine, for instance is clocked 180 degrees out). This is no big deal, unless you attempt to install your plug wires in their normal places on the top of the distributor. In my case, what is normally my number one position is actually my number three position (remember my distributor is turned 180 degrees from normal). So, I have to reposition my plug wires to account for this situation. Since firing in our bugs is 1-4-3-2, I have to install my number one plug wire in the number three position on top of the distributor, and each of the other plug wires also change their positions, following the 1-4-3-2 order. If I didn't do this, my firing order would be ridiculous--as if I had taken off all my plug wires at the plugs and repositioned them on the wrong plugs.

As I said, being off on your distributor drive is okay, as long as you know it and compensate for this fubar by making sure your number one at TDC is really your number one--and not number three. In other words, when at TDC for number one, the rotor tip on your distributor is actually pointing to your number one plug wire.

Tim
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

If you still want a step by step, here is the busdaddy Timing Manifesto:

Quote:
If you only have one hose attached to your distributor pull it off, you don't need to cap it (no need on single hose systems), if you have 2 pull them both off but plug the one facing the distributor (retard). Now connect the timing light to the battery and the #1 plug wire according to the timing light instructions (and set it to zero if it's the type with adjustments). Now start the engine and shoot the timing light at the scale and pulley (hold the light in your right hand), see the mark on the pulley?, good. Now using your left hand slowly open the throttle on the side of the carb (move it the same way the cable pulls it) and watch the timing mark VS: the scale, the mark on the pulley should start to move to the left, open the throttle a little more and continue until the mark no longer moves to the left any more (yes it's loud, isn't it?), give it a bit more throttle just to confirm the mark is staying put at wherever it stopped (hopefully 28-30 degrees) and then release the throttle. If it stopped at 28-30, move on to carb adjustment, if it went past or didn't make it all the way loosen the distributor clamp a little and turn the distributor a few degrees one way or the other (you pick, if it's worse go the other way), repeat until you find the happy spot and don't forget to tighten the clamp when you are done (make sure the distributor is pushed down all the way into the case too). Avoid loose fitting clothing and long hair near spinning fans and belts too, no need for a trip to emergency. Now put the hose back on, pack up the timing light and move on to carb or FI adjustment.



If your advance without the hose stops in that range, put the hose back on and drive it. Make sure the distributor is tightened down enough to where it doesn't move; no need to go ape on the 10mm nut. The vacuum advance may go 10° higher, but in real life the carb won't let it get that high with a load on the engine.

Robbie
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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Thanks everyone, she was about 5 degrees over what she should have been. So I did take a look at my spark plugs and dist. My #1 spark plug plugs into the #2 spot on the dist. Then #2 spark plugs into dist. #3 then spark #3plugs into dist spot #4 and spark #4 plugs into dist spot #1. How exactly would I go about fixing this again? Also how the firing order is set won't affect which tdc I put my pulley on when I'm doin my valves correct ?
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

With your engine pulley lined up TDC at the split line you are either on 1 or 3 and with that adjust valves without looking at the distributor, because firing order is known and does not change.
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Thebugkid wrote:
First off there is no way that I'm gonna take off my dist. Cap and loosen my dist, rotate it 90degrees tighten my dist. Put my cap on and expect to be able to start my car and run it without doing anything internally at all. That goes against all the little knowledge I have. Atleast until I hear a couple mores people out there support it. This post was just about timing, if there is an ideal dist. For my car then suggest it and tell me how exactly to do the timing on that.. Not trying to be to Blunt but these posts always seem to stray away from the topic. Thanks everyone for your help and givin suggestions ect.


Great people skills "kid".. Rolling Eyes

Just the kid of snarky reply to rub folks TRYING to help you the wrong way. There was NOTHING off topic about my post. Someone installed your distributor body WRONG into that engine and I was simply trying to tell you how you can correct that.
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**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**
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Thebugkid
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Thanks !
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