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byeralan
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota
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 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:51 am Post subject: I don't understand...Engine locked up |
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Hi,
I hate to use the word "Seized", because the engine wasn't running at the time and I just installed it. Anyway, I removed the engine to replace some gaskets, push rod tubes, valve gap....etc, I did not remove the head. After I finished all the work I re-installed the engine and turned the flywheel to verify that evevything was free and turned...it did a point.
When turning the flywheel it somes to a point and there's a hard stop, I can turn it backward (counter clockwise), but when turning clockwise it comes to a stop.?!?!? Currently I'm unable to turn the flywheel either direction...it stuck
I removed the spark plugs, no damage seen, I removed the rocker arm thinking this would free up the valves, still stuck.
I don't get it...it moved freely when the engine was removed. When it was installed, never started, it's hitting a hard machicanial stop of some sort...
What I don't know
Anything? |
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byeralan
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: One more thing |
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With the valve covers off, I can push all the valves in with my thumb...except for one. This stem will not move...
If the valve broke off I should still be able to push the valve in....maybe? |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| So you don't know if it turned over before you did any work on it? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: Re: I don't understand...Engine locked up |
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| byeralan wrote: |
| Anyway, I removed the engine to replace some gaskets, push rod tubes, valve gap....etc, I did not remove the head. |
Then you must've installed spring loaded two-piece pushrod tubes.
Anyway in your situation, I think I'd pull out the starter, if your distributor is OK, like above post details, and see if the engine turns over with a wrench. If not, pull the engine and take a look-see. Yes, this may end up with you removing the cylinder heads.
Hurry and do it before the snow hits !!!
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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JerryMCarter1
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 6199
Location: N.W. Phoenix
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
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You said --------"When turning the flywheel it somes to a point and there's a hard stop,"
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If you are turning with a crescent wrench this will happen because you’re at max compression on one of the cylinders
How are you "turning the motor ?
Jerry
_________________
Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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byeralan
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: Answers to Questions |
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Answers to the questions:
Distributor mounted in the engine properly? I never removed the distributor and the motor turned freely prior to the removal
So you don't know if it turned over before you did any work on it? The motor turned and ran prior to the removal
Yes, I installed the spring loaded push rods, they're great and easy to install. I thought about the starter but I can hear the solenoid kicking in and out, so I stopped thinking it was the starter. plus it seems like I should still be able to turn the engine with a wrench if the starter was still engaged?!?
If you are turning with a crescent wrench this will happen because you’re at max compression on one of the cylinders. I thought that also, so I removed the plugs and rocker arms and the engine is stuck. Will not move clockwire or counter with the wrench
How are you "turning the motor ? Wrench
You guys are good....keep the ideas coming...please! |
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byeralan
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: Something else I found this morning |
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Since I had the valve covers off, I tried to push in each of the valves (even if it was just a little) to see if they would move. All but one valve in cylinder #4 moves.
Not sure what that means...I don't like the sound of it though.
Thanks |
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JerryMCarter1
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 6199
Location: N.W. Phoenix
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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get a fresh battery charge - and put the starter in it and see if it turns over !
Jerry
_________________
Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMCarter1 wrote: |
get a fresh battery charge - and put the starter in it and see if it turns over !
Jerry |
No don't do this you could cause more damage 
What parts did you pull off to replace gaskets? manifold, fuel pump, gen stand? |
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byeralan
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: No Parts |
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I only replaced the Valve gaskets, push rod tubes...nothing more.
I'm not sure I want to turn it over with the battery, don't want to do any more damage.
I'm tempeted to remove the engine again and see if it turns, but I need to call some friends for that.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks |
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Iron Horse
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 9
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| How good did the engine run before you took it down?Kind of sounds like a rod cap came undone.Hope not.Good luck. |
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byeralan
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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the engines always been solid, carb needs adjusting but doesn't blow smoke.
I'm afraid something major slipped, broke, siezed.... |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Just loosen up the engine bolts, pull engine back a little and see if it turns over then. |
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byeralan
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I'll try that tomorrow
Thanks |
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BeetleBobby
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Mayberry, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
| Just loosen up the engine bolts, pull engine back a little and see if it turns over then. |
If this doesn't work you may want check your muffler bearings. 
Seriously:
Could anything have fallen into the spark plug hole when they were out? It doesn't take much when laying in the bottom of the cylinder quelch area.
_________________
1974 SB Sedan (original unrestored) (SOLD)
1974 Thing (original w/ 1 repaint)
Bob |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: Re: I don't understand...Engine locked up |
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No offense, but my first question... is the transmission in neutral? I thought I'd just check the obvious. 
| byeralan wrote: |
| When turning the flywheel it somes to a point and there's a hard stop, I can turn it backward (counter clockwise), but when turning clockwise it comes to a stop.?!?!? Currently I'm unable to turn the flywheel either direction...it stuck |
Did you really turn the "flywheel" or did you turn the crank pulley?
Initially it got stuck while turning clockwise, but you could turn it back ccw. But now it is completely stuck and cannot rotate cw or ccw? Did it make a noise when this happened? Did the range of motion slowly come to a completely stop or suddenly?
Since you didn't move the distributor, which spark plug wire is the rotor pointing towards now? This will give an idea of which cylinder is at TDC (top of stroke). The opposite cylinder will also be at top of stroke. Is one of these #4 cylinder?
| byeralan wrote: |
| I don't get it...it moved freely when the engine was removed. When it was installed, never started, it's hitting a hard machicanial stop of some sort... |
Pull the engine. It could be trans or clutch related.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| BeetleBobby wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| Just loosen up the engine bolts, pull engine back a little and see if it turns over then. |
If this doesn't work you may want check your muffler bearings.
Seriously:
Could anything have fallen into the spark plug hole when they were out? It doesn't take much when laying in the bottom of the cylinder quelch area. |
What is (quelch) ?????  |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| BeetleBobby wrote: |
| It doesn't take much when laying in the bottom of the cylinder quelch area. |
What is (quelch) ????? |
The narrowest area between the head and the top of the piston. As the piston moves up towards the head, the air-fuel mixture is violently squeezed out of this area into the larger area. This creates turbulence which helps the flame created by the spark plug to travel faster.
Since it is the narrowest gap between the piston and head anything stuck in this area could prevent the piston from cresting the top of its travel.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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BeetleBobby
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Mayberry, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| BeetleBobby wrote: |
| It doesn't take much when laying in the bottom of the cylinder quelch area. |
What is (quelch) ????? |
The narrowest area between the head and the top of the piston. As the piston moves up towards the head, the air-fuel mixture is violently squeezed out of this area into the larger area. This creates turbulence which helps the flame created by the spark plug to travel faster.
Since it is the narrowest gap between the piston and head anything stuck in this area could prevent the piston from cresting the top of its travel. |
Thanks Ashman40. I guess I should have explained. 
_________________
1974 SB Sedan (original unrestored) (SOLD)
1974 Thing (original w/ 1 repaint)
Bob |
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