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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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So I feel good about how I remedied this situation. I used copper from the old exhaust gasket and formed it into a plug then pressed it in the hole and tapped it in there with a punch and hammer. My progress had been slowed as I am nursing a sore elbow. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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curtis4085 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 4806 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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_________________ Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
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atmellovw wrote: |
Making progress an hour at a time. I have the fan shroud removed and looking forward to cleaning things up. The right heat exchanger was replaced at some point so it looks clean but the left despite its grubbiness is solid. Also, three of the four old copper exhaust seals were very stubborn and took a lot of work to get out!
Here is the "money shot". Any thoughts on the oil between between the head and jug on #4. Hoping it is from the oil cooler...I have good compression in that cylinder.
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just how hard is it to take off the fan shroud? and is the engine still in the car? i gotta do my exhaust soon (punched a couple holes offroading recently....) and i gotta replace the TO bearing....so wondering what else i need to do. _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the motor is still in the bus. It is not hard to remove the fan shroud but you need to remove a lot of "stuff" (various tin, fan, ground wires, exhaust, alternator). This a good time to replace your alternator boot and oil cooler seals if needed. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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So, after dragging my feet for a while I am buckling down to get things back together. Getting the heat exchangers back on took a little doing as it was a tight fit and those suckers have a little weight to them. Then I got all the tin back on. Left to do: muffler, new foam seal, connect the battery, and fire it up. Fingers crossed for good exhaust seal.... _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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atmellovw wrote: |
Fingers crossed for good exhaust seal.... |
Well apparently crossing your fingers has no bearing on getting a good exhaust seal. Oh well...So off with everything and this time I am going to diligently follow the Ratwell write up. So far I can see that the pipes were not level relative to each other and I managed to shave off a sliver of head metal and pin it between the sealing surfaces.
I also realize that I am the only one following and adding to this thread...but I don't care... _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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webwalker Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006 Posts: 2803 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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atmellovw wrote: |
I also realize that I am the only one following and adding to this thread...but I don't care... |
I'm following. Everytime someone is documenting their work, I'm trying to follow along.
M _________________ "Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks brother...so tonight I also drilled the holes on the exhaust pipe "ears" to a little bit larger diameter. I used a 25/64" (9.9mm) drill bit and it took some work to get through that German steel! But with the new studs in the head it was a really snug fit and I was concerned that the H/E would bind and keep the mating surfaces from meshing good. Spent some time with the file tonight...
_________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50347
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Bevel the edges of the mating surfaces just a bit once you have them filed flat. As you have found out a sharp edge will dig a sliver off of the heads which will in turn prevent the gaskets from sealing. |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks WT... I remembered your post talking about this a while back and I thought, "this won't happen to me"...WRONG! Thanks for the reminder. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, so 2.5 hours later I think I got the exhaust "j" pipes filed nice and level relative to one another. As it turned out the file I was using was not perfectly flat (it is slightly concave on one side and slightly convex on the other) so this caused a little frustration. But I kept at it and used a straight edge to keep checking until all was good. I found that shining a flashlight from the other side while holding the straight edge helped to identify low spots. I will probably check it 50 more times before reassembly (my OCD at work). _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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whatdoesthisbuttondo? Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2012 Posts: 259 Location: Victoria
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Been following this for a few weeks. Have you tried the fit again? _________________ Orange 1973 Campervan. Rebuilt 1700cc with dual Solex carbs. Pertronix electronic points on stock distributor. Engine rebuild in progress (fall 2023). |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Not yet but close. I had to wait for new for copper gaskets (came today) as when I shave off some of the head metal and pinned it to the copper gasket and left a dent so I wanted to get a new one. I had to drill out the holes to 25/64 to get the HE's to slide over the studs with relative ease. So I am hopeful. I will certainly share how it turns out (hopefully tomorrow). _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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make sure you heat and soften the new copper rings per Ratwell's instructions otherwise the copper is rock hard which works well in a perfect world. You need the copper to be softer so it conforms to the gap as a VW engine with wear those parts aren't like new anymore. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51144 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a little concerened that if it's bent enough to require enlarging the stud holes will it hang up on the edges of the ports now?
Usually if it won't slide on I jack, bend or twist the pipes until it does, not drill. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, I annealed the copper rings. As for enlarging the holes...I did test fit them and they now fit nice and do not hang up on anything. Actually, it is nice to just have that tiny bit of wiggle room to orient the mating surfaces. I think what happened is the new studs, although still M8, have a more pronounced thread than the old ones (make sense?) it was just too tight and caused a misalignment and thus the shaving off of the head metal. I'm not sure bending would have worked? We'll see how it all works out soon...as always I appreciate the input. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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So if you use Loctite 518 upon reassembly of your exhaust do you need to give it some cure time before you fire up the motor? I do recognize that it cures in the absence of oxygen...but how long does it take...
EDIT: Found my answer here: http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/518-EN.PDF _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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nathansnathan Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 1671
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Something people forget to do when they file the heat exchangers is to file the top of the shoulder, too. There's only 2mm of crush to start with, before they bottom out. |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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nathansnathan wrote: |
Something people forget to do when they file the heat exchangers is to file the top of the shoulder, too. There's only 2mm of crush to start with, before they bottom out. |
I thought of this and took those measurements very carefully. I even made four little measuring "devices" out of scrap sheet metal for each port to be sure. I now have NO EXHAUST LEAKS...feels so good. I also have no oil leaks (currently) as I replaced some very smushed and brittle oil cooler seals. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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atmellovw wrote: |
nathansnathan wrote: |
Something people forget to do when they file the heat exchangers is to file the top of the shoulder, too. There's only 2mm of crush to start with, before they bottom out. |
I thought of this and took those measurements very carefully. I even made four little measuring "devices" out of scrap sheet metal for each port to be sure. I now have NO EXHAUST LEAKS...feels so good. I also have no oil leaks (currently) as I replaced some very smushed and brittle oil cooler seals. |
Awesome _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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