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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: Heat exchanger and exhaust removal |
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So, I am on to my next winter bus project, i.e., to remove the heat exchangers as I suspect I have an exhaust leak (at least on the right side). While I am at it I plan to remove the fan shroud to replace my leaky oil cooler seals too. I have read a number of threads on the topic. I am wondering what are my chances of removing all 8 exhaust nuts without any hitches like having to replace studs or effing up my heads? I am soaking them with PB Blaster and will clean them up as best I can first. Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3580 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Do not get in a rush. PB blast is good so is time and heat. If they do not brake free at first try tightening than loosening back and forth. If all this fails cut the nuts off and chase the threads. |
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75bus4/me Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2011 Posts: 414 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Just did my driver’s side. BP blast for 3 days and tight loose back and forth worked. _________________ 1975 Bay Window {Big Red} |
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420GOAT Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2006 Posts: 3343 Location: Wilmington, CA on a nice quiet street but still in the 'hood
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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tap on the nut /stud after pb blasting. just a minute or so each. _________________ once you realize im not impressed we will get along just fine |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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So I am making good progress on this project just working a little each night in between running kids around. I have everything removed for the fan housing area (alternator, fan, therm cable, tin, etc...) I have new exhaust studs (just in case) and self locking nuts, new oval copper exhaust seals, oil cooler seals, etc...Currently the exhaust bolts are soaking in PB Blaster but I was able to loosen them each a bit and then gave them another dose of PB, I'm in no hurry.
But I was wondering why the good folks at VW did not make it so you could remove the fan housing without removing the exhaust? Seems to me that if the little covers (2) that are on TOP of the exchanger where they connect to the shroud where placed on the SIDE (towards the rear) you could then remove the shroud by pulling it back. Or the 4 fan shroud mounting holes could be slotted to allow you to lift enough to clear the exhaust and then back off? But I digress..... _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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EZ Gruv King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002 Posts: 8544 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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atmellovw wrote: |
But I was wondering why the good folks at VW did not make it so you could remove the fan housing without removing the exhaust? |
You can (I did), but it's better to do it right. _________________ Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
My Photography Page. |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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But I am looking for it to be easy! This time around, I wanted to remove the exhaust to fix a leak but for folks who just want to change oil cooler seals wouldn't it be nice? _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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Mr Gage Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2011 Posts: 55 Location: Santa Maria, California
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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The only problem I had with mine was the clamps at the very bottom under the mustash bar. The devil put them there, I swear he did, getting them off is semi hard, but getting new ones on in a sick joke.
P.s. Semi hard. hu hu hu _________________ 71' Kombi- but we call her "ANNABELL" |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Making progress an hour at a time. I have the fan shroud removed and looking forward to cleaning things up. The right heat exchanger was replaced at some point so it looks clean but the left despite its grubbiness is solid. Also, three of the four old copper exhaust seals were very stubborn and took a lot of work to get out!
Here is the "money shot". Any thoughts on the oil between between the head and jug on #4. Hoping it is from the oil cooler...I have good compression in that cylinder.
_________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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This has me a bit baffled? On my #2 exhaust port there is a hole that looks to be there by design? In the hole there is a plug like thing that almost looks to have an allen type head? It is right on the mating surface where the copper ring goes. Sorry for the blurry pic, I have an ancient digital camera. Has anybody ever seen this before? Of course I am concerned as to how I can get a good seal.
_________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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EZ Gruv King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002 Posts: 8544 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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There should a a stud there that goes through the collar on the heat exchanger. _________________ Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
My Photography Page. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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EZ Gruv wrote: |
There should a a stud there that goes through the collar on the heat exchanger. |
I think he's referring to the dark spot on the gasket surface at roughly 1:00.
I have no idea why that's there if it is a threaded hole, possibly a roadside fix for a casting flaw or eroded seal surface? Seems sketchy to me either way _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Busdaddy, I am referring to the dark spot. Any ideas on a remedy other than replacing the whole head?
EZ...I have new studs, just haven't put them in yet. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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atmellovw wrote: |
. Any ideas on a remedy other than replacing the whole head? |
None that I'd be confident recommending, welding would be my first choice but it depends alot on the overall health of the heads in general first. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I year ya...it is just really odd. If someone did it purposefully I can not see what the purpose could possibly be. It is not threaded but the plug in there looks to be pressed in. Surprisingly it looks like the seal was fine prior to pulling it? Go figure...I'll have to sleep on it a while... _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Possibly a casting flaw of some kind. Someone may have tried to fill it with JB Weld or something. |
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germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7093 Location: toronto
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
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I think the gasket got stuck and someone drilled a hole in the copper ring to get it out, and the drill 'slipped'. I would try to plug the hole with a lttle piece of metal, like a brass dowel. _________________ SL |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5780 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Ya know, while you've got the shroud off would be a good time to replace the two oil gallery freeze plugs at that end of the engine. I say this because I didn't, and four months later I had to pull it all apart again to do it. Grrr.
Is this engine still in the vehicle? _________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: |
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[quote="jtauxe"]Ya know, while you've got the shroud off would be a good time to replace the two oil gallery freeze plugs at that end of the engine. I say this because I didn't, and four months later I had to pull it all apart again to do it. Grrr.
Is this engine still in the vehicle?[/quote
Not a bad idea, but for myself I don't like doing freeze plugs with the engine together unless under duress, like when I did one in a less than convenient spot in Mexico. I would advocate for doing a bit of extra peening around the plugs though as one can easily make it where the plugs are many times harder to remove by doing so. |
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atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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germansupplyscott wrote: |
I think the gasket got stuck and someone drilled a hole in the copper ring to get it out, and the drill 'slipped'. I would try to plug the hole with a lttle piece of metal, like a brass dowel. |
I thought of this reason too Scott but I can't imagine why they went so deep? I was thinking of filling it as you suggest but I was thinking of using copper as it is malleable and I could use a punch to really get it formed in there...like filling a tooth! _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
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