Subaru Engines Vs. VW Engines

[miniman82]

[vw_hank]

[Joel]

Yes there's definitely some work in it but it's an option for people who just want a fit and forget cheap high performance engine that needs stuff all maintenance, gets excellent mileage and lasts for ages.

I've owned my current bug for over 13 years, the handling is absolutely no different through the bendy stuff with the subi engine

Certainly a conversion is not for everyone, when someone finds me a 175hp VW engine that gets 30+mpg, only needs an oil change every 10,000kms, lasts over 300,000kms untouched and only costs $500 to replace if I break it I'll gladly swap back.
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[Alstrup]

I am - of course - pro aircooled. but I will admit that I have recommended a Subie conversion a couple of times over the last year or so, to bus people. especially campers that are heavy, and owned by people that don´t know squat about maintenance. The alternative would have been a power stroke type 4. But they are getting so expensive to build from scatch that the Subie conversion begins to look interesting.

For daily bugs, I still recommend WBX engines, because they "fit right in". But prices on quality spare parts for these engines also have a tendency to increase. And if you chase a little hp in conjunction with a rebuild, they easily produce 130-140 hp...
T

[vw_hank]

[Jake Raby]

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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[Sanny]

evil is uncool...

[retroman]

I have a VW because I want a VW. I do not want "electronics', or any high tech crap. I can fix my 71 Bay anywhere I go. I just dont see the point of defeating the simplicity! That's just my opinion.
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1967 bug recovering from a PO
1987 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender "Otto" been all over the place with never a problem!

[sactojesse]

I have one of each: a 1966 ghia convertible w/ a 2110 cc Type I engine pumping out around 120 hp and a 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT wagon w/ a turbo EJ25 putting out around 300 crank hp. Both are great!

That said, however, the only VW I'd ever consider putting a Subaru engine in would be a water-cooled Vanagon. KEP went through a lot of trouble getting a CARB sticker for its EJ22 Vanagon swap, so it's smog legal for us Californians.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible

[emberblade]

I know the engine weight difference isn't much, but the placement is farther back. You have to do some serious cutting into the body to get a Subaru to fit in the back of a bug, which takes away some weight I suppose. This is all conjecture. That's why I asked instead of jumping headlong into this.

Anyway, that's all behind me now. Personally, I'd rather have something a little less intimidating to work on than a modern car engine.

So it's a VW engine for me. If I did do some kind of big bore Type 4, I'd probably have to have the heads custom made for this application. I don't know the measurements off the top of my head, I'd have to look it up some more and call around, but that's for another day.

I agree that a Type 1 with a mild turbo would be easiest and most cost effective.

...And yea, it's gonna cost quite a bit.... I've estimated a total cost of parts to be around $18k... And that's assuming I do all labor, paint and bodywork myself. But I'd rather spend on something fun like this than something I can't work on and feel no pride in.

Plus, this thread isn't just for me, I just wanted a straight up comparison of these powerplants. It's good to understand the ups and downs each engine brings to the table.

[manoa]

emberblade, cool decision

A moderator will be on here any minute to transfer this thread to the subi forum of theSamba.
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[69bajaguy]

Subi vs. Aircooled. The practical decision is obvious, really. With the Subaru you get much more power, longevity, and reliability with a waaaayyyyy lower price. But then again, if we were "practical" people, we wouldn't all drive Volkswagens from 40 years ago. Us VW people are a little bit hard-headed it seems. For instance, I could have done a Subi conversion and it would have cost half what my 1915 has cost, while giving me more power, etc. I decided to stay aircooled because I can fix the thing myself if anything goes wrong and I can say that I built it myself. Of course, with the Subi, there would be a much lower chance of something going wrong and it would be a bit less work. If some of ya'll looked in the offroad section, you might be horrified at some of the things that take place. Lots of Subi swaps, one or two Toyota swaps, etc. There are even people that cut up ovals to make bajas For me, the simplicity of a VW is possibly the most appealing part of it. But it all just depends on the person I guess.

[Koyote]

[Dale M.]

You want brash horsepower in simple form, EJ 2.5 with MS....

You have to do a expensive build on a VW motor to get near the standard horse power a Subie delivers....

Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Chris Vellat]

[sullydog93]

Subaru is a good choice if you want big, reliable power and only oil changes for regular maintenance. Not the true ACVW experience,
it sounds way different, it drives different, it smells different.
Not to mention a variety of ways to have great heat.

The weight difference is about 70 lbs behind the axel and 100 lbs
for the pipe, radiator and coolant (na 2.5) minimal cutting in later
year bugs and ghias.

Just dropped by Outfront in Buena Park and I am a believer.
The loom and computer is $1,500, about 20 wires from the engine
to the computer. One + from the key and one ground wire from the computer. Stock engine with stock fuel injection, 190 hp +.
Do it yourself for under $4,000 - how can this not be the future for
the casual enthusiast with a need for speed?

[Joel]

I'm actually surprised this thread didn't get locked, there has been several identical threads over the last couple of years.

The main ones I've noticed that are really against conversions are the old die hard air cooled nuts that just want to stick with what they know and seem to be alergic to modern technology...
What? no pushrods?
More than one cam GTFO of here.....

Conversions are alot more common outside the US as it's still alot cheaper to build a high power VW engine there and Subarus aren't as common.
They are like the plague here which is why you can go to any junk yard and come out with a good engine for $500.

[stanthedog]

Saw a subi to vw conversion kit on the portland craigslist a few days ago for around 500 bucks including the engine and brain box. just looked for it again but it's gone.

[toddgsanford]

2 cents here
by the time you adapt the subaru engine to your transmission. get all the fuel and iginition worked out buy a good subi engine that doesnt have 200k miles on it for reasonable you will have spent more than you would having a reputible builder build a solid high output motor.
I drive an 08 subaru work in the recycling industry and see few subarus @ 3% of what we buy we buy, most of the subarus we see are wrecked bad or have a bajillion miles on it. If your thinking affordable or practical swap not so much. now if you want the all wheel drive componenet thats a whole different conversation and straight up crazy talk. but that would be cool

[bugnut68]