Author |
Message |
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
I had Josh trace out and cut the second inner fender well panel for the Squarsche today. He'll be doing a mirror image of what he watched me do yesterday on the passenger side.
On the passenger side I marked and welded in the dzus anchors I bought from Speed Mart into the OEM inner fender well. This will act as an air duct to bring cooling air from the NACA ducts fwd of the rear wheel, over the rear wheel and straight into the OEM cool air duct at the back of the car. This will help to force-feed the fan at speed. I went this route rather than just switch to the later fender grills and *hope* enough air would find its way into the fan.
Since we're running at Bonneville, we had better be able to clean the ducts out after racing, so they are being held in with dzus fasteners. Here's my side:
His side to follow and I'm sure it'll be better than mine. . . _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Super cool idea with the ducts! <--- Sorry, pun...
There are so many questions to be answered and experiments to be performed with regard to cooling... It's just infinite.
How fun would it be to have days to test different things?
Will you be doing any tests of pressure, pitot tubes and such?
I guess the temp gauge should tell you a lot,
But with making a motor change, your control data has been compromised.
Guess you could block off the ducts and compare.
Trying the late vs. early louvres would be fun too.
Aerodynamics are always so surprising, and always seem to give different results than what is expected.
At least in my limited experience....
Can't wait to see your results with all of this!
Green With Envy.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
Super cool idea with the ducts! <--- Sorry, pun...
There are so many questions to be answered and experiments to be performed with regard to cooling... It's just infinite.
How fun would it be to have days to test different things?
Will you be doing any tests of pressure, pitot tubes and such?
I guess the temp gauge should tell you a lot,
But with making a motor change, your control data has been compromised.
Guess you could block off the ducts and compare.
Trying the late vs. early louvres would be fun too.
Aerodynamics are always so surprising, and always seem to give different results than what is expected.
At least in my limited experience....
Can't wait to see your results with all of this!
Green With Envy.. |
About the only testing I'll be able to do is to cover over the ducts and run with/without them 1 at a time and note the changes in head temps. Anecdotal evidence will be the extent of my testing. Gotta give the samba-know-it-all-trolls something to debate right in the future right??
It's funny that I still have people almost 15 years later tell me that the side scoops that I made for my bus don't work, when I have proven time and time again that they do (mine do anyway). . . _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4921 Location: Southern AB
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
It's funny that I still have people almost 15 years later tell me that the side scoops that I made for my bus don't work, when I have proven time and time again that they do (mine do anyway). . . |
you must have used the expensive teflon lined baking pans where everyone else used the cheap ones _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vlad01 Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 3069 Location: Australia
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lol.
I know a guy with a bay with suby conversion. He has the side scoops and they make a difference.
What I found interesting is that he found one day the engine running 5ºC hotter and later found it was the rear pop out was defecting the air away when open, closed the windows temps dropped back down, did it like clock work so very definitive proof of the effects of air flow on such factors that seem arbitrary otherwise. _________________ The best of VW engine development!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROWqjuTM0g
71 Aussie notchback, the money pit
92 VP vacationer, old faithful never die
95 VR executive, Restored beyond factory
92 VP S Pack, bought it new old |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
W1K1 wrote: |
Quote: |
It's funny that I still have people almost 15 years later tell me that the side scoops that I made for my bus don't work, when I have proven time and time again that they do (mine do anyway). . . |
you must have used the expensive teflon lined baking pans where everyone else used the cheap ones |
Well duuuuh. . . The teflon lets the air slip right into the engine compartment and is the key to the whole thing. Most VW people are just too cheap to spring for teflon pans. . . Sheesh. . .
You know what they say, "The only thing cheaper than a VW is the owner!!" _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No pics today. . . Just verbage.
Had a couple days that disappointed me and ended up as wasted time, which I can't afford at this point with less than 50 days to go before World of Speed @ Bonneville. Anyway, progress was made on 2 fronts. . .
1. I got the inner fenders sealed for the NACA ducts to bring cooling air to the engine. This was huge. Originally, I had grandiose schemes of ducting from the NACA ducts to the inner fenders, however I had grossly over thought this. All I needed to do was to prevent air from traveling from the NACA ducts to the rear section of the fenders and attempted a fiberglass ducting system to make this happen. . . I lost a n entire day on this fiasco. A simple 6" wall prevents this and the "lazy air" will have no choice but to go down the duct over the rear tire and into the engine. Woohoo!! A HUGE burden has been lifted off my shoulders. . .
2. I now have brakes. Yeah, racing at Bonneville make brakes kind of the last thing you need to be concerned about, but it was forward progress, so I'm counting it today. I need all the fwd progress that I can get.
3. I found the perfect seals on Ebay for the inner fender/outer fender and I'll be ordering them tonight.
I may start throwing receipts away on this project. . . This sh*t is getting expensive and completely depressing . . I'm a freakin' privateer on a shoestring budget and and prayer!!!!!!!!! _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After weeks of delays due to shop and family commitments as well as part incompatibility issues, Josh was finally able to finish the engine build that he started several weeks ago. None too soon I might add since it is getting down to the wire on this project!!
One of the issues we had was when I ordered a ring set, TWICE, I was sent the wrong oil control rings. Each time, causing a week or more in delays. . . Man was it nice to get those cylinders on and the motor finished. Here are a few shots of Josh back at it getting the cylinders prepped and heads on and torqued.
After we determined our rocker geometry and made adjustments via shims and push rod length, Josh got down to making the custom length chromoly push rods. He did a fantastic job!!
He then was able to get the modified 1.7L rockers w/ OEM Porsche 911 adjusters installed and the valves adjusted.
We’re going to start the motor with these bolt-on covers. Yeah, yeah, I know; they will probably leak, but we gotta try ‘em anyway since they’re easy to change out for stockers. . .
Before the engine tins went on, we set the air gap at the hall sensor and 36-1 trigger wheel to 3mm and verified a good signal with a multimeter. We wanted to do this now since getting at it later will be “fun”.
Then began the job of the engine tins. We robbed these off the old 2056cc and cleaned them-up.
After that, we mounted the ITBs and synced the linkage, which only took about 30 seconds (try syncing any other type of linkage that fast).
Then I had Josh break out the torch and anneal the copper exhaust gaskets so they would be butter-soft for good stub sealing.
After they cooled, he installed them into the ports, anti-seized the studs and mounted the custom stubs using OEM Porsche 914 2.0L exhaust nuts.
Below is a shot of Josh and his first motor build. I’m really proud of him and what he has created here.
Today, I had to make an exhaust hanger just before the V-band. With the 911 muffler, this is not needed, but if I run a straight pipe, it will need to be supported. This is what I came up with.
Then we got the header on and the muffler installed.
_________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
|
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nate,
My hats off to you for getting your sons hands dirty with your project. I recall giving my father grief over turning a wrench and now wish I could have that experience. I can't wait until my son gets a little bigger to so I can try and get him involved. I found him taking a busted air grinder (no disc or wheel on it) and pretending to be working on his truck. He was into so I'm hoping he has the same attitude when it comes to the real thing. Josh looks very happy and proud of his creation which I'm sure is a great feeling for you. _________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
|
Back to top |
|
|
eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
|
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well Nate another great long term project that is turning out great as well. The grin on your son says a bunch. What does the grin on dad look like? Nate well done, Josh, I do not have words |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Doesn't this just speak volumes?
And why not?
What a sweet, sweet, motor!
While the big, obvious things are over the top, like the FI and exhaust,
There's details that are all over the place, each with their own little story;
Early early fan with the little rubber cone thingie in the middle,
Exhaust scavenging/PCV setup,
Type 4 deep sump,
On and on... Literally half a lifetime of learning and collecting and working represented here...
HELL of a first motor to build..! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4921 Location: Southern AB
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the kind words guys. Even through all the smart-@$$ness, I think Josh is picking this stuff up pretty good and is doing a great job on his part.
I made some more progress yesterday. I modified the tank (via BAH ) and got it mounted. That enabled me to be able to finalize the front strut bar and weld-in the studs for it.
This is the first front stiffener to go in. I'm going to be doing some testing in the months to come to see if more will be needed.
I also made the spoiler stiffener support and mounted it to the inside of the spoiler. This is necessary because all the force of the air at high speeds will eventually break the mounts for the bumper since they are just fiberglassed in place. This will support the bottom really nicely and make it solid at high speeds. I still need to make the strut bars that tie it to the front suspension, Since I ran out of materials.
I also mounted & plumbed the Walbro fuel pump and filter as well as ran all the front fuel hoses.
_________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWporscheGT3 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006 Posts: 2076 Location: Gardnerville, NV
|
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nate Speed week was cancelled, it seems the flats have turned into a lake... bummer bro.... _________________ Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
Nate Speed week was cancelled, it seems the flats have turned into a lake... bummer bro.... |
Yeah, that was really too bad. It was postponed for 2 days and then they pulled the plug on it when it rained again. It only takes 2 days or so for the water to evaporate, so it was a chance worth taking. . .
World of Speed is the big VW event that gets covered in the magazines and that is still on for Sept 6th-9th. That's the event I'm planning on doing since the USFRA is the body that runs the 130 club which I will try and gain entry into.
Still on track for WOS 2014!!! Come on sunshine!! _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWporscheGT3 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006 Posts: 2076 Location: Gardnerville, NV
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Aha, didn't know they were separate events.. learn something everyday. I was over on a motorcycle news site, and they said it was cancelled and I immedietly thought of you... good to know your event will likely be fine. _________________ Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice work you and your son are doing there Nate. It's looking closer to getting done. Hope you make your deadline. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Assembly continues. . .
_________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwfye Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2000 Posts: 7661
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Very cool. How does it sit with the rear engine in and rolling it out for ride height? _________________ 64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
1980s Sand Dragster "The Plunger"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nate M. Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
vwfye wrote: |
Very cool. How does it sit with the rear engine in and rolling it out for ride height? |
IMHO, it sits perfect, but I'm biased.
The front and rear are both adjustable with the turn of a wrench so I can go lower or higher than it currentlyis. As of now, the front skid plate/mount and the deep sump are 4" off the ground and the front flex-dam is 3" off the ground. I will NOT be going any lower on the street (and will probably lift the front & rear up another inch just to be safe). For Bonneville, I want to have the front no more than 1.5" off the ground and suck the rear down another inch. _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|