My Shop-car build thread

eyetzr · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject:

I am going the stainless line way on my square. I dropped the bucks for a hydraulic flare tool from the Snap on guy. Aluminum line works well if you can support it & tie it up nice. Ran it on my race car way back. Steel is the simplest & easiest to get & repair (if needed)
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I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"

Nate M. · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject:

Aluminum lines scary?? Ever flown on an airplane?? (hint: they are plumbed with 90% aluminum hard lines.) Laughing

I used steel lines. I can get 'em anywhere and they lasted 50 years so far. In another 50 years, I'll be gone if the car is still here. Gotta give the next generation something to bitch about. I'll happily be the "DPO" on that one. Laughing

_________________
Regards,

Nate M.

Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!

eyetzr · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:28 am Post subject:

I have a customer that builds aircraft training simulators & it is scary how light weight all the parts look. All that aluminum with lightning holes & rivets....oh all those rivets.
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I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"

vlad01 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:33 am Post subject:

vlad01 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:37 am Post subject:

Nate M. · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject:

I've been a little nervous about coupling the new 2.3L race motor to the Squarsche with just a stock clutch installed. In the past I had been able to slip the clutch just a bit in the harshest driving with the 2056cc engine with a disc I used to run. That hasn't been a problem wince I replaced the disc, but I didn't want that to be an issue. So when I found a guy on the local craigslist selling a NOS Centerforce dual friction 914 clutch kit, I bit and picked it up cheeeeeeeep.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

He bought it back in 1999 for about $350. I bought it in 2014 just before Christmas for $250. Twisted Evil

Normally this set-up goes for around $850+ today so it was quite a score for me.

In order to comfortably use this HD clutch assembly, I would have to upgrade my clutch actuation to a hydraulic set-up. So after seeing what was out there and reading mixed reviews, I decided on the SACO in the tunnel MC/slave cyl kit since I could use my existing pedals.

I’m no stranger to custom installs. In fact, a good custom job beats a stock job just about any day since it’s doing something different. I love custom work. What I do not love, is tons of custom fabrication when the parts are advertised as “bolt-in”.

I knew going into this install that it would not be 100% bolt-in because I have a Porsche 923 5-speed trans which is anything but stock so I knew I would have to figure out how to make the slave cylinder work with what I have. I did half way expect the master cylinder install to go fairly smoothly and be relatively bolt-in since the kit was made and advertised for both T-1 & T-3 cars. I can’t speak about how it installs into a T-1, but I can tell you all that the kit takes considerable tweeking to fit into a T-3. In retrospect, I think installing cheap Chinese chrome engine tins and getting them to seal like factory German tins would have been easier.

I’m just glad that I already had a larger access hole cut into my tunnel AND that I have a lift here at my shop so I had easier access than either on my back or through the top by removing the fuel tank.

To fit this MC and bracket into a type3, here are some of the added steps not noted in the instructions that had to be done in order for it to physically fit in it's intended location:

- I had to trim the upper, left tunnel cover mount hole off so the MC mount bracket/MC would even fit into the tunnel (it sticks out of the front of the tunnel approx 2”).
- I had to trim the entire left side of the tunnel access hole so the bracket would fit flat when bolted in.
- I had to use a burr to clearance the bottom, fwd end of the bracket approx ½”X1” in order to allow the 2 mount bolts to align with the factory pedal bolt locations.

It doesn't sound like much, but I cannot stress what a TOTAL PITA this was due to the location and access (or lack there of). Approx 5 hours of back and forth, taking a bit off and try and wrestle it back in only to find I had more to remove here and there. All the while laying across the seats reaching through a sharp access hole. There is no easy way to work in the pedal area; it ALWAYS sucks in the best of circumstances. I cannot tell you all just how many times I seriously contemplated taking this MC & bracket across the street and filling it full of .45 slugs!!!

The slave cylinder was surprisingly straight forward and rather simple. It fit perfectly between the casting on the trans case which holds the clutch cable end and the clutch arm. I simply drilled out the Porsche clutch clevis to fit the S/C. I turned a teflon bushing with my lathe for the other end and bolted it to the trans case being sure that it could move and pivot in the stationary hole. I had to slightly trim one of the ribs about 1/8" so the slave cylinder wouldn't hit it. Lastly, I replaced the supplied 90degree #3AN fitting with a straight #3AN fitting so the braided pressure line would fit better.

Of course, once I mounted the reservoir and bled the system, I quickly discovered that I needed just a bit more pedal movement then I could get with the factory hook. So I had to take out and pull apart the pedal assembly. I cut-off the hook and made a piece that was 10mm longer and welded it to the clutch pedal rod. Then I made a new clutch MC push rod that was about ¼” longer. When I then discovered that I still needed slightly more throw, I relented and cut about ¼” off the pedal stop. . .

FINALLY, a hydraulic clutch that works as it should. No small feat though getting this kit to work on my T-3. Not all the issues I encountered were due to the kit not fitting a type3. However, there was just no way that MC & bracket would ever fit without a lot of massaging of the bracket and the car.

While it seems to works well, I don’t know if I could recommend this to anyone installing it into a T-3 without letting them know what they are in for. Again, I’m no stranger to custom fabrication; it’s just irritating when parts that are supposedly designed to work and fit, don’t even come close to either. I’m glad this was for my car and not for a client.
_________________
Regards,

Nate M.

Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!

Clatter · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:03 am Post subject:

DOH!
Here I was all copying your old clutch cable arrangement after shitcanning the Saco set-up!
Embarassed

Also, FWIW, make sure to check the bores on both of those cylinders.
The Saco stuff is known to have burrs where the transfer holes are drilled.
Tears O-rings, and causes leaks.
Especially bad when it fills the tunnel full of brake fluid..

Dag.
Now you got me re-thinking all this stuff again...!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

Nate M. · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:56 am Post subject:

Critter1 · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:20 am Post subject:

Just saw this discussion... I was trying to keep things as clean as possible. For my application I don't think there will be much vibration as the line is pretty secured inside the tunnel/frame horn. As it sits in this pic, there isn't any rubbing against the SS line, but just for extra insurance, I'll be using either JB weld or some other two part epoxy gooped cleanly around the opening at the base of the SS line. There won't be any vibration or leaks after that.

Nate M. · Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject:

The quest for reliable speed continues. . .

After much contemplation, thought and otherwise thinkin' things over, I've decided that dry sumping the 2316cc race motor would be a wise investment. Here have been my thoughts in random fashion. . .

- The deep sump hangs down a little lower than I would like and otherwise makes me a bit nervous. I'm retired Navy and when I go on base with the Squarsche, I have to cross some pretty big steel barriers that would either (a) hit the deep sump or (b) come darned close to hitting the deep sump and every crossing I would wonder: "is this the day. . ." I don't want to test it!!

- Long sweeping turns are no big deal when you have 12 quarts in the dry-sump. They can be a problem in a wet-sump motor with less than half that. . .

- All the added weight is low and forward of the center of gravity in the car.

- Not having to worry about ruining my high $$$ race motor by running dry on oil; PRICELESS!!

I've acquired a new CB dry sump pump. This will be dutifully modified for use in a type4 and will be ported internally.

The custom mount bar I made earlier will need to be highly modified since the inlet/outlet to & from the dry sump tank are right where the solid mounts are that I made earlier. . . (sigh!) Such is custom car building. . . Laughing

So a re-design is in order so the oil lines can fit in that space while still mounting the engine. I already have ideas so look for an update on that when I have time to make it happen.

The tank I found was an eBay special in the form of a Richardson Racing 12qt dry sump tank out of a modified race car. Some of the fittings are too big and will need to be made more VW-compatible. Some are not needed. But this tank has an integrated O-Berg oil filter and should fit nicely where the battery now resides under the rear seat. For the price, I couldn't pass it up!!

The battery will be permanently moved to the "frunk" where it belongs and where it will aid in adding weight where needed.
_________________
Regards,

Nate M.

Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!

Clatter · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:18 am Post subject:

Oh, man, I have the popcorn out, and am watching...

Dunno if you saw my post on the STF Speed/Drag Racing forum about just this... It's a deep subject.

Venting to a breather box in the engine compartment?
Think it will give off heat in traffic on a hot day?
How to drain?
Low enough to not flood?

Please do show how those CB pumps are to be ported,
And how to mod your fan shroud and mount bar.

There is one guy right here who is watching very carefully.

My car is (finally) getting mocked up,
and while i'm not ready to do dry sump yet,
I'm trying to get my head around it,
and make it so i don't have to hack the car later.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

Nate M. · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:32 am Post subject:

Clatter · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:59 am Post subject:

As I try and go through my day, I always keep thinking about cars.
Any time there's a minute, my thoughts wander.
They say men think about sex like every 5 minutes or something.
Malarkey.
Some woman said that..

Anyhow,
How's that hydro clutch setup working?
Did you get under there and watch while a helper pushed the clutch in/out?
Can you get full 'swing' at both ends of the slave without fouling the cable mount boss?
I somehow recall during mock-up that the trans case would need clearance..
Was paining me to think of cutting that 923 case even just a little..

Also,
Are you planning to weatherproof the front of the tunnel?
We all drive in the rain now and again, would suck to fill the tunnel full of water..
Maybe just make up a rubber boot/bladder of some kind?

I know its probably raining up there, but, please share your impressions of driving that set up..
Will be interesting to see how it all holds that big clutch.

I'm sure that P/P is off with the rest of the big lower end for a matched spin-balance, right? Wink

Oh, man, I'm just green with envy over big motor your set-up there.
I know full well why so very few type 4s get taken 'all the way'.

On the subject of dry-sump:
Having the tank inside the passenger compartment scares me.
Now that my stunt-driving career has put me upside-down twice Embarassed

I keep thinking of medieval torture.
You know the one,
Where the king has his captured prisoners boiled in oil...
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

Nate M. · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:24 am Post subject:

Nate M. · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:15 pm Post subject:

I spent some time today doing some of the mods necessary to correctly fit a CB Performance type1 dry sump pump into a type4 motor. I have to say that it was not much more difficult than the mods required for a 30mm pump.

Here's how the pump breaks down:

The pump uses a 26mm suction side (the bottom pump) and a 21mm pressure side.

On the back side of the pump, there was a small bit of clearancing needed. On the drive shaft boss, I needed to shave approx. '040" off. On the idler boss, I shaved it approx .030" which was basically flush with the pin.

On each end of the drive pin, I shaved approx. '025". On the pressure gear end, I removed the '025 on my lathe. On the drive tang, I simply removed it by hand on a disc sander and re-profiled it.

On both the inlet (from the tank) and outlet (to the tank) I had to drill each approx. .200" deeper and re-tap the holes deeper into the body to be able to attach the inlet/outlet nipples. They would not fit otherwise. Kind of crappy manufacturing, but I've seen this before on other things.

Now all I have to do is to port in internal passages and clean in my ultrasonic cleaner and it'll be ready to install in the motor.
_________________
Regards,

Nate M.

Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!

Nate M. · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:24 am Post subject:

This weekend, we got the chance to test the Squarsche at a track event. Evergreen Drift was hosting an auto-X @ Evergreen Speedway in Monroe, WA, so we grabbed our gear and headed down. That was about the best $65 I've spent in a long time!!

The course took most about 1:00 - 1:20 seconds to complete depending on your car and driver's ability to get through it. My best time was around 1:08. I won't even talk about the times on 2 runs that I spun out. Rolling Eyes

It poured rain for most of the day, so that was to our advantage since we didn't have the HP of some of the other cars giving us better traction. It was very satisfying to beat an R32 Skyline, 'course if the pavement had been dry, he'd have handed my @$$ to me. Laughing

I did get to play with the Koni front shocks a bit and found that full firm minus one turn was the hot ticket for that track in those conditions for my car. On full firm, the back-end would get loose a lot easier in the slalom section under braking, but when I softened it up a bit, the rear was more compliant and stuck better. It really handled great! In the back section, I could normally begin to close gaps between us and the car in front. It laid pretty flat in the corners and handled as good and better than I had imagined.

Some areas of improvement that became very evident are:

1. I need a fuel cell. I could smell gas sloshing out of the cap on a few corners.
2. I need new easier to reach adjustment screws for the rear suspension.
3. I need to dyno tune the EFI to this motor. We gave up a lot of time due to tuning and having a lack of power at the moment we needed it.
4. Of course, MORE HP!! Laughing

As can be expected with the weather we had, it was a drift-fest and one hell of a lot of fun. The best part was that my son Josh could ride with me in the so we could enjoy it together.

Here's a shot of the Squarsche w/ Josh inside in the staging lanes waiting for the next run.

In all, we were able to make 9 runs around the course. I got them on the GoPro, however I had it mounted upside down on the suction cup. Normally I have it outside the car, but this time I had it inside and it would only fit up side down. If any of you know how to flip the videos before I up load, let me know how please. I'm electronically challenged. . . Wink

_________________
Regards,

Nate M.

Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!

vwfye · Samba Member Joined: April 15, 2000 Posts: 7661

Sounds like a hoot and a holler there Nate!
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64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
1980s Sand Dragster "The Plunger"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3"

68vwfasty · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:41 am Post subject:

Nate, your car looks so awesome! I really hope I get to see and hear it someday.

vlad01 · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject:

Hey Nate?

I figured you might have a bit of knowledge on the subject of AFRs on AC engines.

what target AFRs would be a rough ball park to start with on a Porsche 930 engine? its modified but specs are unknown other than the modified twin plugs. Some aftermarket intercooler as well.

I am developing a whole engine management system for a car which had a crappy mixture of dumb DFI with no boost retard and, aux injector run by some crappy module which feeds from the actual tacho and factory mech injection.

any ideas on cruise, med load and under WOT boost?

im thinking cruise 14:1 or can I go leaner? 13 mids and 10.5-11 under boost ?
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Nate M. · Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:29 am Post subject:


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