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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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and letting him snow us into believing he is the only man in the world smart enough to change the cam and pistons, and port the heads on a modern subaru motor that people have been building for all forms of racing for years. |
Yes, all forms of RACING, not to be optimized in a 40 year old vehicle that needs more torque than HP..
Also, I challenge you to find many of the components to optimize a Subaru N/A engine, to include camshafts and pistons. I have had to start from scratch with all of these things because all Suby performance is centered around the Turbo engines. We are not attempting to make maximum HP and RPM with the majority of these engines, but more a concentration of power over a much different RPM than the factory engine. This gives the entire engine a big boost of practicality and effectiveness.
The things we have learned and applied are not even considered in the conventional Subaru world, in fact the engines that best fit VW applications are typically disposed of in the Suby world by guys that want big power- they are perfect for a VW.
This one plot says a lot. The things I have learned in the past 18 months are mind blowing and many of them were never sought out by any Suby "Tuner".
BTW- I never said that the parts would not be offered for direct bolt in conversion! I said that **I** had no interest in doing so at a retail level where the general consensus has become "I'll buy your parts, complain about price and then you'll be forced to give me the free information to finish the conversion". Thats not happening.
I have a conference call this evening with the perfect company to retail and support these products- All I want to do is make it work and perpetuate the development of it to perfection. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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kennybench Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 19
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Jake, I have enjoyed the pics and progress reports you have posted on our build job. We can't wait to get the bus back home and into the hills.
You can of course continue to post anything you want on this thread or any other that catches your eye.
But why continue? I really don't give a damn about what a few of the usual posters think of the project or of what they might hope to glean on the cheap (or criticize) from your pics, reports, research or development. Why don't you move all of the future pics and progress notes to your site, your forums, and reply only to those who are genuinely interested in the products and technologies you are willing to provide? Why subject yourself to all the BS?
Those who want to bitch or share their valuable research and development insights can find some other Samba thread to hack up. |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, was it that picture of the computer monitor he showed us with no usable information in it? |
I am sorry that that you don't know what that is.
That said, Ken has helped me see the light. Done sharing about this one here. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Jake Raby wrote: |
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Oh, was it that picture of the computer monitor he showed us with no usable information in it? |
I am sorry that that you don't know what that is.
That said, Ken has helped me see the light. Done sharing about this one here. |
got a link for your site at least? _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Moderator's note:
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DON'T post messages for the sole purpose of attacking a person or company or just to start an argument |
Let's stick to the topic.
If you want to discuss issues as adults... start an other topic and don't pollute this one. That just makes it easier for the moderators to police.
Thank you. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Javyd Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2010 Posts: 62 Location: Northern Illinois
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Anything recently posted? haha i only see about 5 posts.... _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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spiggs Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2010 Posts: 36
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Well after all the bickering in this thread I don't want this to sound like a criticism, it is just an inquiry for my own learning.
So Jake, I am just curious where you feel the Subaru engine can benefit most from development for use in a VW Bus. Looking at the original design goals for something like my Subaru Forester I can't see how on a basic level it's much different than a VW Bus. My Forester weighs 3800lbs, has the aerodynamics of a brick, and is designed to carry people and gear wherever I want to go. I know that careful assembly and detailed work on mass produced parts will yield some improvement but it seems like for the most part the mission is unchanged. Especially if emission compliance is kept in tact. So what did Subaru leave on the table? |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by airkooledchris on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Subarugears Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012 Posts: 294 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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You don't drop $5000 to $6000 on a transmission.
It can be done for as little as $3,000 to buy the kit, a decent core and some time and patience for assembly.
In fact I have seen in done for $1600 by a customer prepared to purchase the ring and pinion for $1500, do his own fabrication and welding plus lucky dip used transmission for $100. Not the norm, but he's cheap and made it happen. _________________ http://www.subarugears.com |
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Bcoe Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 82 Location: Sevierville,TN
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Plus the added benefit of a better gearing and reliability with the suby 5 speed. _________________ 86 syncro tintop 2.2 suby, 86 syncro tintop stock,dune buggy 2.2 suby powered,dune buggy 3.1 gm. chaindriven dune buggy 3.1 turbo charged propane,dune buggy 1914 vw, Myers Manx tow'd,and the list goes on. |
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Chris_914 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 344 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Subarugears wrote: |
You don't drop $5000 to $6000 on a transmission.
It can be done for as little as $3,000 to buy the kit, a decent core and some time and patience for assembly.
In fact I have seen in done for $1600 by a customer prepared to purchase the ring and pinion for $1500, do his own fabrication and welding plus lucky dip used transmission for $100. Not the norm, but he's cheap and made it happen. |
Being that all the reference here is dedicated to VW's, what's the gear ratios on the Subaru transmissions? Or is there a decent site on the web with reference info like that? _________________ '75 Westfalia Camper FI 1.8L
'75 914 2.0L |
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Subarugears Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012 Posts: 294 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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There are plenty of lists going around of all the different combos of gear stacks. What we like to fit is the fairly close ratio turbo gearset. For example :
1st - 3.166
2nd - 1.882
3rd - 1.296
4th - 0.972
5th - 0.738
There's also the non-turbo style gear ratios :
1st - 3.454
2nd - 2.062
3rd - 1.448
4th - 1.088
5th - 0.871
Combine these with final drive ratios of
3.9:1
4.1:1
Soon available 4.4:1
Soon available 4.86:1
and you have a bag of options. _________________ http://www.subarugears.com |
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Vinnems Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2008 Posts: 1181 Location: Simi Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to bump this topic, but I've been dreaming of doing a Subaru conversion on a single cab, and wanted to say I think everyone involved in this has done a great job. Subagear, your site is amazing. Everything is so straight forward, excellent pictures, excellent diagrams. I mean, holy moly, you include CAD drawings for transmission mounts. This is the kind of thing I like to see in the community. I also like the included builds, so no one has to go and reinvent the wheel in a build. Jake, excellent install, I hope for continued success in your ventures.
I find the price to be pretty good, too. When building my Beetles, besides everything possible that could go wrong on the car itself, my engine was stolen. Since I was starting from scratch, I decided to go with a 100% brand new turn key by a respected engine builder, Chico Performance. Very happy with it, love the thing, it ran me... I can't remember now, somewhere in the $4000s. That's as much as it would cost to buy a brand new transmission from Subagear. I also had my transmission refurbished by Rancho, and was quoted $500 but it ended up being $800 because some stuff was bad in it. With that $800, I could've found a decent shape junkyard Subaru motor. See, it all evens out.
I'd like to build the transmission myself, but the cutting of the transmission has me worried. I mean, I've cut the $*%( out of Beetles and put them back together, but cutting the transmission makes me uneasy. I'm a bit confused, though. Is it only certain year/model cases that need to be cut? I know nothing about the changes in Subaru motors and transmissions over the years.
Also, no CAD drawings for Bus or other VW mounts?
Keep up the good work, guys. I like what I see now, can't wait to see what the future holds! |
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samwise Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2010 Posts: 611 Location: North Salt Lake, Utah
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Subarugears wrote: |
There are plenty of lists going around of all the different combos of gear stacks. What we like to fit is the fairly close ratio turbo gearset. For example :
1st - 3.166
2nd - 1.882
3rd - 1.296
4th - 0.972
5th - 0.738
There's also the non-turbo style gear ratios :
1st - 3.454
2nd - 2.062
3rd - 1.448
4th - 1.088
5th - 0.871
Combine these with final drive ratios of
3.9:1
4.1:1
Soon available 4.4:1
Soon available 4.86:1
and you have a bag of options. |
For comparison, and taken from the Bentley site, so hopefully they're correct
1st - 3.78
2nd - 2.06
3rd - 1.26
4th - 0.82 (through chassis 213 2068 547)
4th - 0.86 (from chassis 213 2068 548)
Final drives of:
5.375 (through chassis 213 2300 001)
4.875 (from chassis 214 2000 001)
4.57 (2.0-liter engines)
The above are for the T4-engined only - T1 have different ratios and final drive, I think.
As I understand, higher numerically for both gears and final drive = better acceleration, lower top speed
Lower numerically = top speed biased
So a 3.78x5.375 will pick-up and go better, but a 3.78x4.57 will rev out to a slightly higher top speed in the same gear?
Is that about right?
Using Glenn's gear ratio Excel spreadsheet, for a standard 1979 2.0 with 185/80x14 tires, at 4000rpm I get:
_________________ Ben
1979 7-passenger bus
Harvee the Wonder Bus' pics
Last edited by samwise on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Over the weekend I checked out a guys conversion using a new Ford crate motor. If I ever did a conversion (which I won't) that's the way I'd go. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16801 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Desert....could I ask why a ford mill? Seems the suby size and layout would be ideal _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry Skills, I don't know the details, size, model, etc., and am not in tune with converting VW's (except big blocks in bugs).
It was a Vanagon. He explainded the purchased adapter to get it to the trans. The mounts, particularly the rear, was a simple nice mount. Lots of room in the engine compartment. Perfect fit with easy access to the engine. Evidently the electronics were just simple plug ins along with his programming of it. He made simple effective heat shields for the exhaust. I don't want to mention dollars but he bought it from some Ford Performance source and the totally complete new ready to go engine was a lot cheaper than redoing a T-4.
Like I said, I don't have any specifics or details except looking it over I was very impressed. It looked so much more suitable than a T-4 crammed into an engine compartment.
He's been having great success and experience driving it. It was loaded with camping gear and that's not an easy drive up to the 7,000 feet at Flagstaff. Many, many miles of 6% grades. And also being an AZ bus it also deals with the temperatures. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the Ford Zetec engine conversion that Bostig put together.
http://www.bostig.com |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16801 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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thats what i was thinking. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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