Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Heater Booster Fan (wiring trouble)
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Heater Booster Fan (wiring trouble) Reply with quote

Hi guys,

For the past couple days I have been trying to figure out the wiring for the heater booster fan in the engine bay in my 72. I can't seem to get power back there at all, but I know the fan does run. I have been looking at this wiring diagram... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_1972_wiring.jpg

But im still trying to figure out what each wire/component does? The heater fan should only turn on when the red levers are all the way down, correct? Does the engine need to be on as well?

Could there be a contact missing by the red levers up front that is causing my lack of power?

I apologize for my newbishness here, I'm just trying to figure out why there is like a whole unit back there to run this fan, rather than just a power wire and a ground? I will post a picture that will help you guys know what I'm asking about.

Thanks in advance,
Cam

PS I've done some searches on the topic but havent really found the info that I am looking for. Feel free to link me to something if you find it though.
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Chris_914
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2011
Posts: 327
Location: Las Vegas
Chris_914 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The relay listed as j14 controls the blower. The red wire is power from the battery via the starter lug, when activated it connects to the yellow/black wire on the blower.

The relay gets its power from the blue wire that goes to the voltage regulator. It is only hot when the engine is running and the regulator is putting out positive voltage from the blue wire. The brown/white goes up to the lever in the dash and connects to ground when the heater lever is full engaged.

Engine running, alt light out, and heater lever fully engaged should power the heater blower.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Heres the picture if it helps at all!

Thanks again!
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_914 wrote:
The relay listed as j14 controls the blower. The red wire is power from the battery via the starter lug, when activated it connects to the yellow/black wire on the blower.

The relay gets its power from the blue wire that goes to the voltage regulator. It is only hot when the engine is running and the regulator is putting out positive voltage from the blue wire. The brown/white goes up to the lever in the dash and connects to ground when the heater lever is full engaged.

Engine running, alt light out, and heater lever fully engaged should power the heater blower.


Beat my post with the picture! That is very helpful thank you!
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I think I'm grasping whats happening here, but I still a have a few questions...

When should the red wire be hot?

And when it is hot, all that does is make a connection between the two ends of the yellow/black wire?
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Chris_914
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2011
Posts: 327
Location: Las Vegas
Chris_914 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the fuse is good, the red is always hot (the battery postive is connected to the same lug on the starter). It is switched to the yellow/black when the relay is activated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Chris_914
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2011
Posts: 327
Location: Las Vegas
Chris_914 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relays tend to be universal in nature, meaning the same relays can be used for many different applications. In this case if I had to guess, the activated end of the relay has two connections that become hot and they bridged them with the yellow/black wire. The relay probably has a schematic on the side that shows this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 24834

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it much easier to use the new current track style diagrams instead of the earlier ones. From this diagram you can easily see that it is a double pole relay and the the red wire is hot the whole time.

tp://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_7374a.jpg

The aux fan is current track 4 and 5.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just went out and tested all those wires. I couldn't get any reading on on any of the wires. I test them all with the engine off and the key in position 2 and then with the engine running, and then with the engine running and the red levers all the way down. Could the relay be bad??

Also I popped the fuse out of the red wire and just tested from the metal inside the fuse housing and still nothing.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks,
Cameron
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 28349
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have no power at the red wire nothing will work, it goes to the battery terminal on the starter, maybe you should start there first.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi! So after working on a few other problems on the bus, I'm back to trying to figure out the booster fan...


Quote:
If you have no power at the red wire nothing will work, it goes to the battery terminal on the starter, maybe you should start there first.


Busdaddy, I think you're right, 'cause if you look at my starter here...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You can see that the red wire in the box isn't attached anywhere... So I assume that that is the red wire from the booster fan relay. Where on the starter do I attach that wire??

But I think we have more problems! Because today, I was looking at the back of the heater levers under the dash and found that the white wire, attached to the ground on the back of the switch was simply a loose end. I doesn't go anywhere.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Should this be where the brown/white attaches??
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 28349
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That red wire goes on the post the battery cable attaches to and that terminal on the lever is indeed where the brown white wire goes.

Where does that wire with the yellow connector go?, somethings funny on your starter.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok!! I connected the red wire to the starter, and now have power to the red wire over in the engine bay. So now I guess all I should have to do is connect the brown/white wire, but it seems to be missing up front... hmm... where would it be coming from??

As for that wire... It may go to my second battery or the marine switch that connects the second battery? I'm not totally sure, but I had my bus mechanic put in the second battery as well as a new starter about 2 months ago. I think that probably has something to do with it...
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
cambarner
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Southern Maine
cambarner is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOT IT!!!! WOOHOO! Thanks Busdaddy!
_________________
1972 Microbus, AKA 'SurfBus'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
dubluvv
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2007
Posts: 809
Location: Old Town, Maine
dubluvv is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, going to ad my problems to this thread. '76 Westy.

Here's what I have for wiring...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I assume the blue wire coming out of the harness is supposed to connect to the relay, yes?

Black wire coming from relay goes to NEG side of coil. Correct or no?

Currently, the fan is not hooked up. Where do the two wires coming from the fan connect to?

Also, what color should the wire that hooks to the lever switch (on dash) be? I've been looking for a brown/white to no avail. I have a blue/white just hanging, is it that one?

Thanks
Mitch
_________________
-Mitch

'76 Westy 2.0L FI "Lucy" Project Thread
'84 Rabbit L Diesel - Potential Greasecar Project

chazz79 wrote:
"Aw honey, I got another one of those bay-bus things on my shoe again...dammit"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 24834

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dubluvv wrote:

I assume the blue wire coming out of the harness is supposed to connect to the relay, yes?

Black wire coming from relay goes to NEG side of coil. Correct or no?

Currently, the fan is not hooked up. Where do the two wires coming from the fan connect to?

Thanks
Mitch


The aux fan is in current tracks #4-6 of this diagram while the ignition circuit is in current track #69-71.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Click diagram to enlarge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dubluvv
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2007
Posts: 809
Location: Old Town, Maine
dubluvv is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
dubluvv wrote:

I assume the blue wire coming out of the harness is supposed to connect to the relay, yes?

Black wire coming from relay goes to NEG side of coil. Correct or no?

Currently, the fan is not hooked up. Where do the two wires coming from the fan connect to?

Thanks
Mitch


The aux fan is in current tracks #4-6 of this diagram while the ignition circuit is in current track #69-71.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Click diagram to enlarge


I will admit, I do not know how to read a wiring diagram. Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
_________________
-Mitch

'76 Westy 2.0L FI "Lucy" Project Thread
'84 Rabbit L Diesel - Potential Greasecar Project

chazz79 wrote:
"Aw honey, I got another one of those bay-bus things on my shoe again...dammit"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 28349
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current track numbers are in the yellow line near the bottom, the fan is V4 and the dash switch is E1, the relay is J14. The wire colors are shown as well as the terminal numbers if they matter, all you have to do is use your imagination regarding physical location of the components and wire lengths.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, 68-73 westy OG plaid curtains, singles OK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
telford dorr
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 1191
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
telford dorr is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See if this helps:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Important wires highlighted.
_________________
'71 panel - stock

'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research - Steven Wright

In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh

It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

More VW electrical at http://flowcon.us/td/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB