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buggytime Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2011 Posts: 32 Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject: Swing Axle Long(er) Axle |
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I recently wore out my Swing Axle transmission and now I am in the process of putting in a rebuilt one. the rebuilt transmission has a set of long axles on it and last night as we were installing it we noticed the stock brake drum didn't sit over the backing plate like a normal one would (long axles). I purchased the larger spacers and I just don't think (hoping) that I installed it correctly.
has anyone installed long axles? and what did you do?
I know pictures help but I didn't take any last night.
Any Questions/Comments/Concerns are greatly appreciated.
Thanks. |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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The spacers to convert the early drums, short axle, short spline to long axle, long spline go on after the drum to space out the castle nut into the thread area.
Where did you put the spacer? _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Its not a long axle problem its a spline problem as "Joe" says, if you have short spline drums you need spacer between drum and castle nut...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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wythac Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004 Posts: 2791
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, there are short shorts, short longs, long shorts and long longs.
Put a mic on any spacers you buy and make sure they are of a consistent width. I damaged a set of axles by using some that were of substandard tolerance. |
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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For spacers between the drum snout and the castle nut, I have had good luck using the spacer that the axle seal rides on in a swing axle setup. See number 10 in the diagram.
_________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Also to mention, the bearing caps are different. The long axle tube uses a different axle cap than the short axle tube.
They cannot be mixed or the backing plate/wheel bearing will not have proper support. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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buggytime Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2011 Posts: 32 Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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hey joe are you referring to this?
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buggytime Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2011 Posts: 32 Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Also I had the spacer in the wrong location so thankfully that is fixed. |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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buggytime wrote: |
hey joe are you referring to this?
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Yes.
If the wrong bearing retaining plate is used, either the bearing will be loose, or the backing plate will be loose.
One axle tube has a shorter depth for the bearing to seat in and the bearing retaining cap is deeper to accomodate it. The exact opposite, with a deeeper axle tube bearing area and a shallow bearing retaining cap for the other. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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buggytime Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2011 Posts: 32 Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I'm guessing because I installed the one that's on the right that I should have installed the one on the left. ? |
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buggytime Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2011 Posts: 32 Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm guessing because I installed the one that's on the right that I should have installed the one on the left. ? |
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Teeroy Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003 Posts: 3685 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: Swing Axle Long(er) Axle |
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There is also two different bearing depths of the style on the left, one is interchangable with the style on the right. _________________ Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Swing Axle Long(er) Axle |
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Teeroy wrote: |
There is also two different bearing depths of the style on the left, one is interchangable with the style on the right. |
There are actually 3 different depth bearing retainers. _________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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R.C.N. Bugs Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2012 Posts: 230 Location: SPRING VALLEY CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Can some one please add part numbers for the 3 bearing caps I need the correct part numbers for bearing caps for 68 long axle long spling. Are they the same as type 3? Are they the same as irs . I have two bearing caps that end with a a. And another whose part number ends with a b. I need to get my straight axle conversion done |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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If you want to name all the bearing caps that could get mixed up aren't we talking about 4 different bearing caps? Are the part numbers visible on the bearing caps? If so that would be a great way to tell them apart. Otherwise, distinguishing measurements will need to be used.
1. Pre 1965 (?) These don't have the oil flinging washer. They where designed for an oil flinger that mounted in the drum.
2. 1965-1967 These physically interchange with the ones above but have the built in oil flinger and should be matched to a oil weep hole in the backing plate.
3. 1968 These have the bearing positioned with more of it in the cap compared to older models. [edit: less of it in the cap] These have the built in oil flinging washer too.
4. 1969-1979 These are the caps for the IRS cars (1968 autostick also.) I don't know how they differ as I'm not very familiar with later Bugs.
That is all behind the drum. There are 2 different axle lengths used in Swingaxle cars as well. 1961-1966 are short axle cars. 1967 and 1968 are long axle cars.
Axle and drum splines come in 2 different lengths. Everything prior to 1968 has short splines, drums and axles. Everything from 1968-1979 has long splines. Long spline drums can only be used on short spline axles if you have a machine shop shorten the snout of the drum to allow the axle nut to be installed. (how much?)
Since 1969 and newer are IRS cars that leaves one year, 1968, with long axles and long splines (I think that is also what is used on newer Mexican Beetles too, as they did not go to IRS.) A spacer has to be installed between the drum and nut to allow the use of short spline drums on long spline axles.
My Buggy has 1967 long axles with 1963 brakes and bearing caps. I do not have the old style drum mounted oil flingers as they where not available reproduction until recently. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
Last edited by EVfun on Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jrailer Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2014 Posts: 150 Location: utah
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Why didn't you just swap out the axles and tubes |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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R.C.N. Bugs wrote: |
Can some one please add part numbers for the 3 bearing caps I need the correct part numbers for bearing caps for 68 long axle long spling. Are they the same as type 3? Are they the same as irs . I have two bearing caps that end with a a. And another whose part number ends with a b. I need to get my straight axle conversion done |
No part numbers sorry... but you can figure out what you have by depth differences.
Basically the depth of the axle tube bearing cup and depth of the bearing cap cup added together, should equal bearing thickness no matter the year.
You cant mix match certain year caps and axle tubes.. or the bearing or backing plate wont be secure.
I actually have a car rolling with 67 axles, 1- 67 tube and cap and 1- 68 tube and cap... works fine..
The 68 (and newer) swing axle bearing depth style tube does place the axle 2mm deeper into the fulcrum plates because the bearing is 2mm deeper into the tube.
Pretty sure that was done to help place the bearing 2mm further in the tube (rather than the cap) to support to the longer end and splines of the 4 lug drum swing axle.. Pure speculation but makes sense to me..
_________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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R.C.N. Bugs Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2012 Posts: 230 Location: SPRING VALLEY CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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I have two bearing can't that are 311501311a and 301501311b they are the same at the 68 ones you pictured but one has a different depth
So I don't know if it will be correct |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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R.C.N. Bugs wrote: |
I have two bearing can't that are 311501311a and 301501311b they are the same at the 68 ones you pictured but one has a different depth
So I don't know if it will be correct |
Whats the cap bearing cup depth?
Do they both have the shrouded cap and weep hole?
Go back and read beyond the picture....You can pretty much take the measurement of the seated bearing outer race sticking out of the tube and figure out which cap you need.
I checked 4 known 65-67 caps and they are 311501311...no a or b.
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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R.C.N. Bugs Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2012 Posts: 230 Location: SPRING VALLEY CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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They are two different depths I'll clean and measure and take pics |
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