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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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One more. Ruby under anthracite
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longboard511
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2012
Posts: 133
Location: england
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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this still happens at current manufacturing plants i work for toyota and we have had cars come through with incorect panel finish and found they have been painted before
we had 1 door that had 2 colours on it (ok they were all silver but incorect code for car)
if a guy on the line damages a panel especialy on a metalic the are all painted at the same time so they match
it means pulling the shell off the line to rectify that costs cash im sure
it prob happened more then than now that a car was fixed with the overflow parts that were already painted then resent through the paintshop usising these parts? |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| AlteWagen wrote: |
One more. Ruby under anthracite
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Cool find AlteWagen! Was this taken at Solvang?
I would like to look this one over closer in person to see if it has one of those white stamps under the hood like the Black '61 has.
I've been trying to get time to photograph another Ruby Red '66 in town that has the familiar Sea Blue showing through under the right front fender. I hope to post it up soon so bill can see it too 
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croSSeduP
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 1106
Location: Western Washington State
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Derek Cobb
Annoying
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2565
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Derek Cobb wrote: |
Yeah, you're right. There's no way someone bolted on a new panel to a one or two year old bug. 
No evidence of bodywork? Because they used straight hoods and fenders to replace the dented ones. The yards were full of Beetles back then.
There would be absolutely no reason for the factory to bodge panels together like that. It's a fantastic theory based on slim to no evidence. Sorta like aliens built the pyramids 'cause we can't figure out how they did it.
These cars weren't built by a bunch of idiots in a parts warehouse. It was a thoroughly modern factory in Germany, and that kind of silly stuff just wouldn't have happened. |
I'm going to eat crow here and admit I've been convinced to change my opinion. Since this thread was started I've seen such a large number of original paint anomalies that the idea of a "Friday afternoon" Beetle actually does make a lot of sense. From a quality control standpoint, the swapping and repainting of body panels actually makes a lot of sense. |
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webberjames95
Snorkelstang Finder
Joined: January 18, 2011
Posts: 1091
Location: Pullman, Washington
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Derek Cobb wrote: |
| Derek Cobb wrote: |
Yeah, you're right. There's no way someone bolted on a new panel to a one or two year old bug.
No evidence of bodywork? Because they used straight hoods and fenders to replace the dented ones. The yards were full of Beetles back then.
There would be absolutely no reason for the factory to bodge panels together like that. It's a fantastic theory based on slim to no evidence. Sorta like aliens built the pyramids 'cause we can't figure out how they did it.
These cars weren't built by a bunch of idiots in a parts warehouse. It was a thoroughly modern factory in Germany, and that kind of silly stuff just wouldn't have happened. |
I'm going to eat crow here and admit I've been convinced to change my opinion. Since this thread was started I've seen such a large number of original paint anomalies that the idea of a "Friday afternoon" Beetle actually does make a lot of sense. From a quality control standpoint, the swapping and repainting of body panels actually makes a lot of sense. |
how do you explain the fact that some og owners cars have this paint thing going on, and the owner never had repairs done on the car?
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| webberjames95 wrote: |
how do you explain the fact that some og owners cars have this paint thing going on, and the owner never had repairs done on the car? |
The point of this entire topic is to try and answer that very question.
Did you start at page 1?
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webberjames95
Snorkelstang Finder
Joined: January 18, 2011
Posts: 1091
Location: Pullman, Washington
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| 61SNRF wrote: |
| webberjames95 wrote: |
how do you explain the fact that some og owners cars have this paint thing going on, and the owner never had repairs done on the car? |
The point of this entire topic is to try and answer that very question.
Did you start at page 1? |
No. I have been here since post #1. But the people who I was quoting were suggesting that the factory didn't change any panels out and reprint them. I am simply continuing the idea that the factory DID change panels. That is all. 
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1967 Bug:
Olga: the Cal look car lost in the PNW SOLD
1984 Vanagon:
Berty the Vanagon
1973 Bus
Amber the Bus Sold
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| webberjames95 wrote: |
| No. I have been here since post #1. But the people who I was quoting were suggesting that the factory didn't change any panels out and reprint them. I am simply continuing the idea that the factory DID change panels. That is all. |
 Huh???
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3552
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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The changes could have been done at the Dealership as stated several times...
Why would the factory rob Peter to pay Paul? That would just cause a problem on another car... |
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Dustin B
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2007
Posts: 1017
Location: hesperia, Ca USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| txoval wrote: |
The changes could have been done at the Dealership as stated several times...
Why would the factory rob Peter to pay Paul? That would just cause a problem on another car... |
Yes its possible that a dealership could have changed and repainted the body panels but its unlikely. These cars are or at least the ones I've seen in person are accident free cars. The original paint / patina matches the body perfectly with no signs of a respray or any tape lines. If they were resprayed there would be some discoloration between the original paint and the New paint.
Here's something to go off of. Here are two pictures of two different original 1963 baryl green cars. One is in Arizona and the other is in California
Arizona
Rays- California
And how can you argue when there is video showing them dip the car one color and then spraying it another. It's a little over 5 minutes in.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=MiCojp22cj8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMiCojp22cj8
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Derek Cobb
Annoying
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2565
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Try this for a scenario, Your paint line is painting ruby red bugs today and you are inspecting them as they come out of the spray booth. One has a big run right on the hood. You pull the bad hood, send it back for refinishing which requires that the run be sanded out before repainting, but by that time you'll be into another batch of paint so it likely won't match. In order to have a replacement hood in the same batch of paint, they simply stockpile all the flawed/repaired hoods and run them through as they are needed. The paint run yesterday was green, so the flawed green hoods have all been sanded, primed and those are the ones ready for paint today.
result; you get a ruby red car with green paint under a coat of factory primer.
It actually makes a lot of sense now. That's why I changed my mind about it.
I have no empirical evidence to back up this theory, but it does satisfy my need for logic. |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Exactly! Thank you 
Another potential scenario:
A finished Beetle is nearing the end of the assembly line and the paint on a fender, hood or door is accidentally nicked, or as DC suggests some other paint flaw has failed QC.
The car is pulled off the line into a special body shop near the exit door where there is a stock of pre-painted body parts with racks full of fenders, doors and hoods in various colors. The appropriate part is swapped and the car is sent back for final QC and then on to the boat.
The body parts that are damaged or fail QC are sent back to the paint booth, repaired, sealed with grey primer and resprayed which ever color is in the equipment that day and added to the rack for stock. Note too that some colors were more popular than others, so they may have repainted more Sea Blue parts in order to keep more Ruby Red fenders in reserve than others.
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Derek Cobb
Annoying
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2565
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| 61SNRF wrote: |
Exactly! Thank you
Another potential scenario:
A finished Beetle is nearing the end of the assembly line and the paint on a fender, hood or door is accidentally nicked, or as DC suggests some other paint flaw has failed QC.
The car is pulled off the line into a special body shop near the exit door where there is a stock of pre-painted body parts with racks full of fenders, doors and hoods in various colors. The appropriate part is swapped and the car is sent back for final QC and then on to the boat.
The body parts that are damaged or fail QC are sent back to the paint booth, repaired, sealed with grey primer and resprayed which ever color is in the equipment that day and added to the rack for stock. Note too that some colors were more popular than others, so they may have repainted more Sea Blue parts in order to keep more Ruby Red fenders in reserve than others. |
My issue with that theory is trying to match a paint color. Every batch of paint is slightly different, even if it comes from the same manufacturer. They really would need to be painted on a "same day, as needed" fashion or the finish just wouldn't match. |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Here is another, black decklid under Indiana Red
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Nice find AlteWagen, another perfect example 
I finally got around to getting a picture of my neighbor's '66. It's an original paint Ruby Red '66 with Sea Blue under the right front fender. I couldn't get a good shot of them, but there is still original undercoating on the fender bolts, in other words the fender has never been removed or changed...
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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another ruby red with sea blue underneath from classifieds
red under the turn signals and in the bucket is pretty thorough for a cheap respray |
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stale air
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2007
Posts: 5148
Location: Senoia Ga, formally NorCal
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, maybe this could this be why.
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:33 am Post subject: |
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That picture is simply awesome stale air and is worth 10,000 words! It certainly adds credence to my theory of them having a stockpile of pre-painted parts too
Thanks for digging it up and posting.
You know I have to ask, where the heck did the photo come from?
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stale air
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2007
Posts: 5148
Location: Senoia Ga, formally NorCal
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 61SNRF wrote: |
That picture is simply awesome stale air and is worth 10,000 words! It certainly adds credence to my theory of them having a stockpile of pre-painted parts too
Thanks for digging it up and posting.
You know I have to ask, where the heck did the photo come from? |
I found it in the book "Volkswagen Beetle, portrait of a legend"
Btw, I was at Sacramento Bugoramma today and saw no less than three og paint beetles that had burnt off paint with another color under it.
I honestly feel that there is enough evidence presented that proves that this was a practice that Vw did at the factory.
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