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911pickup Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2004 Posts: 625 Location: Near Goats on the Roof
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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A very interesting thread, as I'm in the market for new heads. Presently, my top three choices are (in no particular order):
1. MOFOCO 050
2. Steve Tims stage 2
3. CB's CNC Wedge Ports
My engine is a 2276, with a FK8 cam, 1.4 Pauter rockers, 9.0:1 compression and CB EFI (not sure of the injector size).
I'm looking for a 42x37 head with good low end torque characteristics, but will still hit 6500 rpm.
My vehicle is a Porsche 356 replica. |
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PumaGTe Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2012 Posts: 69 Location: Holland
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Price. |
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Arnolds64 wrote: |
Once they kill the dollar things will go up a ton. Look out folks. The Yuan is going to be soon the world currency and when that happens??? Many people do not know but also the mid east being taken over by the Muslims now will spell the end of Oil from the region. OPEC was setup to where the Oil Producers for us were suppose to pay a % of what they made to pay down our debt. With this gone guess what?? Dollar again devalues. Wake up we are very shaky ground folks. |
What's this on Muslim now taking over the middle east? Majority of the people in the middle east have allways and will allways be Muslim, and to be honest, I don't see how religion is relevant in the question about Chinese cilinderheads.
Maybe you should wake up.
And are the Chinese product really that cheap, or did the US product went way up in price the last decades? |
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scotth17 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2012 Posts: 335 Location: Bedford Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I recently got some new 042s (MOFOCO) and did a little port smoothing and matching to my old manifolds. The chambers and seats were just fine and they run great now. I can easily recommend these heads and would buy them again. I had a previous set that I killed 1 when a velocity stack stud migrated south at full song....... They worked great for a long time so I bought another set to replace them. |
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Quokka42 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010 Posts: 3117 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Roy, Why don't you post figures such as flow or port ccs on your site?
The 042s look like a good option for a torquey motor, but I wonder how much work they would need. As in cleaning up the ports, the transition to the seats and of course seat/chamber work.
I see you offer a port and polish service, but for what I have in mind for my next motor I don't want my ports too large. |
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Arnolds64 Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004 Posts: 724
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: Price. |
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AlteWagen wrote: |
cheap chinese labor wont last too much longer. Soon the chinese part prices will start to rise and the US parts will no longer be more expensive. Once that happens quality will be what makes or breaks the sale. Looks like mofoco already has that going for them. |
Once they kill the dollar things will go up a ton. Look out folks. The Yuan is going to be soon the world currency and when that happens??? Many people do not know but also the mid east being taken over by the Muslims now will spell the end of Oil from the region. OPEC was setup to where the Oil Producers for us were suppose to pay a % of what they made to pay down our debt. With this gone guess what?? Dollar again devalues. Wake up we are very shaky ground folks. _________________ 64 Bug, White, 2017, Dual Weber 44's, Engle 130/Engle lifters, Home P&P'd 40X35 heads, CB 4340 nitrided crank, Eagle knock off H Beam 5.5" rods, Lowering Beam, Rancho Trans, Traction Bar. 225X60's rear, 145's front on Porsche Chrome Nipple Wheels. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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for repeatabilty on the flow on roys heads, I flow tested my 042's when I got them many years ago, I think they were 2 cfm more than he claimed. witch was hard to beleave being done on 2 different flow benches by atleast 2 different operators,in 2 totaly different parts of the country.I calabrate my machine every time I use it(or did I nolonger have it) and I reckon the machine that was used to test his heads was also just calibrated to the conditions. I wish I could flow test them now with the biger valves&wedgeports.
you should size the heads to your motor,vehicle&driving style, not your pocket or eggo. |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8497 Location: PNW
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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cheap chinese labor wont last too much longer. Soon the chinese part prices will start to rise and the US parts will no longer be more expensive. Once that happens quality will be what makes or breaks the sale. Looks like mofoco already has that going for them. |
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Arnolds64 Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004 Posts: 724
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: Really Roy's are expensive? |
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What 660.00 for two Heads? I think a few hundred bucks more for D Ports, Big Valves, Superior castings and piece of mind that if something goes wrong he will make it right. You really think the guy who is distributing a Chinese head has enough profit in them to care if something goes wrong? Roy has to work smarter, harder and offer a better product to survive today against this enemy of us all. The fact that an American made some money on them should make anyone save some money and support your country men. Folks the plan is to bankrupt us and make us all live like a 3rd world. Guys like Roy are dying off and with them our country. I get sick and tired of hearing "A Global Company". You know what that means? That we are not significant anymore and no more important than anyone in the world by the Elite owners of all our major products you can only get now. We built many of them their wealth and they have turned around a flipped us the bird. Fock them! By from Roy!!!! _________________ 64 Bug, White, 2017, Dual Weber 44's, Engle 130/Engle lifters, Home P&P'd 40X35 heads, CB 4340 nitrided crank, Eagle knock off H Beam 5.5" rods, Lowering Beam, Rancho Trans, Traction Bar. 225X60's rear, 145's front on Porsche Chrome Nipple Wheels. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Lo Cash John wrote: |
Roy, I truly love the idea of an affordable, quality head that's 100% AMERICAN MADE. But to date I haven't seen any published or confirmed flow numbers on your 050 head so I've been skeptical. Also you don't list a CNC porting option, just a generic "port & polish" for $100. Knowing how much time is involved in a real port job, the $100 option price leads me to believe this is more of a 'fluff & buff' job.
Do you have any plans for offering some CNC porting options in the future? As you know when it comes to heads, one size does not fit all.
Do you plan on publishing calibrated, repeatable flow numbers for your current offerings (and CNC if you get to that)?
Any chance of offering 44mm or even 46mm valves with heavily CNC'ed heads? There are guys out there running some really big motors on the street.
Can you do these things and be within say $50-$100 (per pair) of your competitors? |
I flow tested the 050 heads myself and they flow 155cfm at .450 lift after I did a port and polish.
Here is the deal with our heads, and I guess some people still don't understand. Our 042 and 050 heads are cast at the foundry with larger ports already in them. When we redesigned the heads, we did numerous variations of the ports, checking port velocity, flow and real world drivability. After we came up with something we liked, we modeled the production heads with these ports already in them. There is no need to CNC port the heads. The reason heads are CNC ported is because the existing ports aren't good enough.
Now, as for the "fluff and buff" comment; it takes me a good 4 hours to port and polish a set of heads. What I do DOES increase the flow BUT there is way more potential in our heads. I have sent our heads to numerous people on this site(who I won't mention but they are free to chime in) and they have done even more entensive porting and gotten the flow up to 180cfm at .450 lift. It's your choice if you don't want to believe me. I have never, nor will I ever, publish something that I don't know for 100% fact.
I can, and have, put 44mm intakes in the 050's but 46mm is just too big. While I understand that many people run "race" engines on the street, I do not build race engines. My heads are designed specifically for the street and you can get a ton of power out of them "off the shelf" or you can put 5-6 hours of work into them and get even more power. |
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Lo Cash John Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004 Posts: 2246 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Roy, I truly love the idea of an affordable, quality head that's 100% AMERICAN MADE. But to date I haven't seen any published or confirmed flow numbers on your 050 head so I've been skeptical. Also you don't list a CNC porting option, just a generic "port & polish" for $100. Knowing how much time is involved in a real port job, the $100 option price leads me to believe this is more of a 'fluff & buff' job.
Do you have any plans for offering some CNC porting options in the future? As you know when it comes to heads, one size does not fit all.
Do you plan on publishing calibrated, repeatable flow numbers for your current offerings (and CNC if you get to that)?
Any chance of offering 44mm or even 46mm valves with heavily CNC'ed heads? There are guys out there running some really big motors on the street.
Can you do these things and be within say $50-$100 (per pair) of your competitors? _________________ www.LoCashRacing.org
More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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erwinsm Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2006 Posts: 156
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
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OK here is the Verdict last year I built 1600cc bone stock engine 7.6:1 compression ration for daily driving- used new Mexican case- AA chinese P&C pair of NEW CHINESE CYLINDER heads . bought pair for about $130 each at the time. A completely budget build with no rebuilt parts has new stock cam , original crank, new rods ( likely chinese made) new flywheel and did a lot of freeway and city driving on a bug. Results - 22,000 miles already and with no problems ! I guess Chinese made parts can hold up pretty well as they are only learning now to improve tooling and casting to sell their parts. I recommend these parts by my experience only and of course like any mass production parts , there will be flaws. The money I saved from the build got me a sweet paint job !! |
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Fredriktak Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2010 Posts: 27 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Really intresting reading keep going |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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from the mfr 's site, $30-80 depending on how compleate, bare to assy.and as everything else shipping is extra.that was last year, but possiably the price has gone up, but i doubt it's gone up much,not till there the only one doing it on a large scale.and as with any thing else money has to be made on them.and as with any thing else if something gos rong it will be the very first & only one to ever have the issue witch un doubtedly will be customer inflicted.hmm, that should be cast into all parts by now.the pics of the drd heads have a very nice chamber and it,s also the same pic from china site that listed the prices.I dont know who commissioned that chamber weather it was drd or diddely squat.but I thank them for doint it & hope the alloy is up to the task.I havent seen the heads in person or the ports.but as of yet I havent seen any vw head that I thought was optemized,most just part way if that.it seems to be the heads that eveloution left behind for the most part.I wish I was still into it hot &heavy & had the time ,$ &health to do it, but I dont.wish somebody wood. |
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ekacpuc Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010 Posts: 1414 Location: ketchikan alaska
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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[email protected] wrote: |
DarthWeber wrote: |
Roy, have you considered doing a head similar to DRD's L3 heads? Using your 040 MOFOCO casting. |
I can do anything
Yes, I do make heads similar, I just don't list them separately. It's our basic 040 plus the port and polish. If anyone is interested, please let me know. I just got our foundry to double their output for me, I will have another order of castings in 2 weeks so now is the time to order. |
If only you had the option to port your # MFC-043-101-355CH Mofoco #043-101-355CH... Would be the perfect budget heads, unless it was 100 bucks to port each one... |
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Almost Alive Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2009 Posts: 1345
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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[email protected] wrote: |
derluftwagen wrote: |
I started a thread regarding the new china casting.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488214
It seems there are at least two castings on the market now, the ones in the first pic in the thread above and the "043" clone that Steve Timms is now using (shown later in the thread).
Just to let you know, Autolinea is the OEM foundry that supplied VW with their castings AND currently supplies CB performance with their "044" casting which is based on the original VW factory racing head or the "041".
Autolineas G03 casting is the same as the original 041 casting but has 40x35 valves instead of the original 39x32 that VW used.
Mofoco has heads made in the USA of various sizes.
My recommendation would be the VW casting that CB still sells called the banditio
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1470
or panchito if you want a bit more power
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1794
Nothing beats a real VW casting for cooling |
I'll have numbers to prove that incorrect this summer |
ABOUT TIME! I've been holding off using your heads awaiting actual specs that prove your design is superior in cooling than stock heads. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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They MIGHT be $30 ea bare, but no way that's shipped. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
if it wasent for the cheep cost why did they go to the china heads.has autolinea shut down ? I dont think so but they will due to the china head give away,and soon the china case will stop the autolinea cases.will we see a cost drop?? no that is for somebody elses pocket just as it is for the heads now.I hope cb can keep them in bissness.so far the 2 sets of china heads I had hear were ok well sort of ok, but not neer as good as the brazillia castings.can they do better ? yes and Im sure they do. but with all the piss&moaning about this china crap there sure has been a lot of jumping ship. did I but the last 2 sets of china heads hear? no they were brought to me.I wish roy could step it up and get the $$ down on his far suppeior heads made in the usa.
there is a lot of $$ to be made on the china head. from what I have heard from places selling them (3 that I called), change the seats&valves before usage, there junk.so now your uping the $$ lay out. but the head shops are buying bare castings for cheep.I was quoted less than $30 a head ,no seats or guides.from china.wonder how much the same brazill head price would be? |
Whoever quoted you that is not being truthful or has no idea what they are talking about. I know for a fact that bare, unmachined castings from China cost WAY more than that. I can buy direct and the best price I can quote on someone buying 100 bare heads that I machine here in Milwaukee is $99 each. |
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DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Somewhere I remember reading Autolinea is or has moved their production to China. Why not, everyone else has.
Except MOFOCO. _________________
Mitey62 wrote: |
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
RockCrusher wrote: |
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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if it wasent for the cheep cost why did they go to the china heads.has autolinea shut down ? I dont think so but they will due to the china head give away,and soon the china case will stop the autolinea cases.will we see a cost drop?? no that is for somebody elses pocket just as it is for the heads now.I hope cb can keep them in bissness.so far the 2 sets of china heads I had hear were ok well sort of ok, but not neer as good as the brazillia castings.can they do better ? yes and Im sure they do. but with all the piss&moaning about this china crap there sure has been a lot of jumping ship. did I but the last 2 sets of china heads hear? no they were brought to me.I wish roy could step it up and get the $$ down on his far suppeior heads made in the usa.
there is a lot of $$ to be made on the china head. from what I have heard from places selling them (3 that I called), change the seats&valves before usage, there junk.so now your uping the $$ lay out. but the head shops are buying bare castings for cheep.I was quoted less than $30 a head ,no seats or guides.from china.wonder how much the same brazill head price would be? |
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DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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It remains to be seen but perhaps Chinese cylinder heads are going to be like their connecting rods, something fairly reliable and trouble free for the most part. I don't believe Darren Gurrolla or Steve Tims would risk their reputation on a questionable casting. Unlike the parts whores who go for the lowest cost crap China can produce, perhaps someone here stepped up and asked the Chinese for a quality casting upon which a good product could be built......time will tell. _________________
Mitey62 wrote: |
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
RockCrusher wrote: |
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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