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total seal piston ring help
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gprudenciop
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: total seal piston ring help Reply with quote

Hi!need some help trying to figure out what brand these rings are?reason I ask is that they are supposed to be total seal top rings!did I get jacked?I have never ran or seen total seal rings in person but these look just like my grants![img] http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=905416[/img]
[img] http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=905415[/img]
[img] http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=905414[/img]


Last edited by gprudenciop on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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66 Shorty
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no experrt, but, they don't look like total seals to me either...
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yamaducci
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope not Total Seals They come separate. Not on the pistons and each ring is a two piece.Usually VWs only use the two piece full circle ring in the second grooveonly. The top and oil are normal.
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes
Total Seal makes conventional rings. Unless you were specifically told you were receiving a gapless top-ring (which those are not), you may very well have received conventional Total Seal rings.

Misadvertised or misunderstood? Go back and check the ad or talk to the seller. Otherwise, run 'em.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

top ring will apear as stock, the 2nd will be a 2 peice ring assy, if you have gapless.
they do however have a gapless top ring also.but I doubt they have them for vw.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: piston ring help Reply with quote

Total Seal is a brand, not a style. What most people think are "Total Seal Rings" are actually "Gapless Rings". Childs & Albert used to make a gapless ring too, I don't know if they still do.

But Total Seal also makes conventional ring sets. Read the description closely, some people are tricky.

There are "Z-Gap" rings where the end isn't straight, making the ring slot a non-straight path. Then there is the more common dual ring on one ring land, eliminating the gap entirely.
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: piston ring help Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:

But Total Seal also makes conventional ring sets. Read the description closely, some people are tricky.


Or honest. Conventional Total Seal rings are one of only two types of rings to push an acVW door-slammer into the 7's in the 1/4 mile. I don't know how many sellers/vendors realize that might be a good selling point.

But you're right; the majority of folks read "Total Seal" and think "gapless ring", instead of differentiating what product they are actually receiving. TS conventional rings are great rings.
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gprudenciop
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the seller swears they are total seal top rings that are harder than normal rings,funny thing is that he asked me if I had the "special tool"to install total seals when I said no he was going to hook me up and have them ready to just install Rolling Eyes well I'm glad I can never leave well enough alone!also he was aware that this was going on a Turbo motor makes me feel[url] http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5xu35bAxA[/url]
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gprudenciop wrote:
also he was aware that this was going on a Turbo motor...


Then be thankful he made the right choice for you.
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gprudenciop
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripped66 wrote:
gprudenciop wrote:
also he was aware that this was going on a Turbo motor...


Then be thankful he made the right choice for you.

So do you think I should run these?
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gprudenciop wrote:
Stripped66 wrote:
gprudenciop wrote:
also he was aware that this was going on a Turbo motor...


Then be thankful he made the right choice for you.

So do you think I should run these?


Yes. The Eric Calabrese uses Total Seal conventional rings in the Red Baron...they are good enough to run 7's in the 1/4 mile; and, I figure they are good enough to run in my own engine. I would not want to run a gapless top ring on a turbo engine, and the benefits of gapless rings on our acVW engines is equivocal at best.

Run 'em.
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What I dont expect is for someone who cannot rebuild a set of Kadrons to understand advanced engine building or technical data.
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gprudenciop
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what your saying stripped but these are going back to the seller!its not that he was looking out but that he knew what I wanted there was no confusion on the direction I was heading and I was very specific on what I wanted!also the special tool needed to install these in the cylinders?even if I have made a mistake with not running these and he was trying to help me it has put doubt in my mind and I will never by from them again!by the way this is a well known shop in Cali.
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You asked what it was, and if you should run them. It's a conventional top ring, and yes you should run it.

If you paid an extra $90+ for just the gapless top-ring and didn't receive it, then I understand your complaint. I would also reconsider running a conventional top-ring on your turbo engine when you shop for new rings.

If you didn't pay anything extra for what you received, then it is what it is, a conventional ring-set (which, BTW, runs about $70 for the conventional top, 2nd, and oil ring set from Total Seal).

Good luck with getting this all worked out!
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gprudenciop
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes stripped 95dlr extra!again thanks for your insight!as the saying goes don't do good things that look bad and also do bad things that look good!thanks
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modok
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those do not appear to be total seal brand rings, the oil ring looks different.
Perhaps a mixed set made from leftovers? hygradin rings and selling off the dregs Wink
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Those do not appear to be total seal brand rings, the oil ring looks different.


Total Seal doesn't make an oil ring for the VW...they repackage another brand's oil ring (IIRC, Grant?). You're correct that those oil rings do not appear to be the same style TS has used in the past (at least from what I've seen/received from TS), but since they don't make it themselves, only TS could confirm whether they switched to a different supplier.
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modok
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is true, maybe the different sizes look different, vw being such odd sizes

If you can get a part number for what those rings are supposed to be, that would be helpful, or don't bother. Get your money back and buy some proper rings, like the classic race ones, (ductile iron moly faced ring!)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perhaps you just paid for the top turbo ring/No2 steel ring package. inquire and request the gapless 2nd to go with it.and the steel ring s tend to not last real long& hard on the cylinders if thats what you have .they do have a few different right types, thus the price diff in a street ring&race ring, then there is the speciality ring for different app.I might be talking out somebodys ass but I would think they offer those for vw as they do for real race motors. i was a total seal dealer many moons ago, have instaled hundrads of them with out a single issue(exception of 1 ring breakage upon instaling on piston&they had one to me the next day NC)I have used 3 sets of C&A zero gaps, & did not like them.they were in for about a month then went back to total seal gapless.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like chrome faced rings, they take FOREVER to break in (if they ever do). Grants suck. Deves are the best by far. Hastings are also excellent. I used to use Total Seals, but found prepping the cylinder properly was more important than using a gapless ring, so I stopped using them. I would use a gapless 2nd ring on a turbo engine though.
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gprudenciop
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your insight into this problem!john do you carry total seal brand? I also edited the topic since there is some good info on TS.
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