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New Webers from Spain? Marketing scam?
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Dougy Dee
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: New Webers from Spain? Marketing scam? Reply with quote

I have been seeing new Weber carbs advertised here on the Samba with 'Made In Spain' as part of the casting and ad headline.

I have also been hearing that a company from New York has had some cast in China and is flogging these with 'Made In Spain' cast in.

Now I wish I was naive enough to believe that someone found a supply of NOS Weber carbs but I am not.

Does anyone have the scoop on these carbs?
Are they any good?
Better or worse than HPMX?
Marketing scam?
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louis-123
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ACN as them, weber redline made in spain.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Dual-Weber-IDF-Carb-Kit-All-Engines-Redline-p/redline-dual-idf.htm
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally have a set of recently made (Spain) Webers. They are not the same as the HPMX. I love these! They are better made than the HPMX, at least the ones my buddy had compared to mine, and every other ones Ive seen. They are not that much more than the Chinese version. I would pay the extra and get the Spanish compared to the others. The only thing I have had to do is change vents and jetting in mine; other than that, every thing is tight and precise in my set. Excellent craftsmanship for sure.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of mine had two Spanish Webers put in his 1976 TR6 last year, along with a new exhaust manifold and a stronger fuel pump. I'm babysitting it and am driving it every three weeks. It drives like a bat out of hell. It seems to want to keep winding higher and higher well past the speed limit. I don't know anything about Webers or TR6's so I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

79SuperVert wrote:
A friend of mine had two Spanish Webers put in his 1976 TR6 last year, along with a new exhaust manifold and a stronger fuel pump. I'm babysitting it and am driving it every three weeks. It drives like a bat out of hell. It seems to want to keep winding higher and higher well past the speed limit. I don't know anything about Webers or TR6's so I hope this helps.


Totally, man! the Webers are NICE!! I dont know why I monkey'd with my dual 35mm Scat Solex kit for so long. These are hands down the best dual carbs I have ever ran on a non-stock vw engine! Now, if I just got my ignition system sorted out, I may have a more manageable beast.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait till you try a set of Dellortos! Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: New Webers from Spain? Marketing scam? Reply with quote

the "Marketing Scam" is the "USA Made" webers that are made in China and assembled in the USA, those are horrible.
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Dougy Dee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: New Webers from Spain? Marketing scam? Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
the "Marketing Scam" is the "USA Made" webers that are made in China and assembled in the USA, those are horrible.


I thought I was correct. So... If they're new and say 'Made in Spain', look out?

Are these the ones coming out of Hauppauge NY?

Is there a way to tell them apart?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: New Webers from Spain? Marketing scam? Reply with quote

Dougy Dee wrote:


I thought I was correct. So... If they're new and say 'Made in Spain', look out?



Incorrect - reread what was written by everyone above - but yourself.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right. There is no problem with Spanish made Webers.. The problem is with the ones that say "Made in Spain" and aren't.
What distinguishes them from real Spanish? (other than the 'too good to be true ' price)
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XxonValdez
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
the "Marketing Scam" is the "USA Made" webers that are made in China and assembled in the USA, those are horrible.


Dougy Dee wrote:
You are right. There is no problem with Spanish made Webers.. The problem is with the ones that say "Made in Spain" and aren't.
What distinguishes them from real Spanish? (other than the 'too good to be true ' price)


Neutral Not sure what you are reading, or getting at....maybe a link to the info/article about the "fake" Spanish Webers would help?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this on the http://genuineweber.blogspot.com/ website (it looks like it's not a totally objective website so I took out some of the more obvious sales pitch material):

That is the situation with WEBER carburetors today. Interco, aka Weber North American, aka Webercarbsdirect has no affiliation (other than maintaining licensing and manufacturing agreements with Magneti Marelli) with the Italian designed and Spanish built Weber carburetors. But this licensing agreement means that Interco can legally use the Weber name. Continuing that line of reasoning they claim they are “genuine” and they may in fact be – legally. But are they “Genuine”?

In our opinion “Genuine” infers two things – that it is real and original. There is only one original Weber and that is the European produced, Italian designed, carburetor built in Spain. These carburetors were originally designed and engineered by the Weber Carburetor company in Italy. Consumers should be aware that what Weber North America is doing is importing a Solex designed carburetor from South America – branding it a Weber – and calling it a “Genuine” Weber. They reason that if Magneti Marelli owns the Solex factory then it can legally be called a “genuine” Weber. We will leave it up to the reader to decide for themselves whether they believe this is what a person would believe to mean “Genuine” (legally it says so).

Now Weber North America has taken it a step further (as of the Summer of 2011) and had the 32/36 DGV series and the 38 DGS series carburetors made (not proud enough to say where on the carburetors) and branding them as Weber's just as they did with the Solex Carb's from South America.

Below is a detail list of the models in question. To further complicate this situation are the carburetors that EMPI is importing. These carburetors are built in China and are for lack of a better term “copies” of the Italian designed carburetors. They use the same designations as the original with an “EPC” as a prefix to label them as “EPC” presumably an acronym for EMPI performance carburetor.

European built Weber carbs - originally designed and engineered in Italy
by Weber and now being made in Spain

34ICT
32/36 DGV
32/36 DGEV
32/36 DFEV
38DGAS
40IDF
44IDF
48IDF
50IDF
40DCOE
45DCOE
48DCOE
50DCOE
55DCOE

Weber branded sold by Interco – built and/or sold under license agreements:

34 DGEC (solex carb) branded with a sticker to make it a Weber
36 DGEC (solex carb) branded with a sticker to make it a Weber
32/36 DGEV - no markings to indicate it's origin - not "made in Spain"
38/38 DGAS - no markings to indicate it's origin - not "made in Spain"
40IDF - no markings indicating its origin
44IDF - no markings indicating its origin

The following link shows the difference in the Branded carb vs the Original European WEBER

http://www.clutchkitcenter.com/media/images/weber/comparison.jpg

and here is one from the U.K. ( a PDF file )

http://www.webcon.co.uk/Downloads/Genuine%20Weber.PDF

EMPI carbs (own design) – built in China. Unlike Interco and its affiliates -
EMPI does not brand these as “WEBER” carburetors – they are branded as what they are - EMPI carburetors. Visually the EMPI carbs closely resemble the well known weber carburetors.
Known EMPI models of carburetors
· EPC 32/36e
· EPC 32/36m
· EPC 32/36a
· EPC 38/38e
· EPC 32/36f
· EPC 34
· EPC 40 HPMX
· EPC 44 HPMX

Summation:

In the end what does this all mean to the consumer. First you must understand what you are buying and why. The choices are: The Original Italian designed and European Built WEBER;
The NorthAmericanWeber branded carburetors; and the EMPI versions.

Up until 2001 Weber carburetor conversions all utilitized the European Carburetors. While there where competitors - Dellorto, Mikuni, and Solex there was one undisputed leader - Weber of Italy. That has all changed with the Parent company Magneti Marelli now owning one of the oldest carburetor names in the business, and a former competitor, Solex. It is interesting to note that at Magneti Marelli's website the founding of the weber carburetor was to elminate having to buy carburetors from the French Solex carburetor company. While legally Magneti Marelli can brand any way they chose - they can take a frozen dinner and call it a Weber - that calls into question the whole concept of branding.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my first choice would be nos or used "made in italy" webers. they're old enough now that you can be sure a rebuild is required.

dellorto also makes a very good carb, and to my knowledge, does not have the quality or origination controversies that newish webers have.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we've been offered chinese IDF copies for under $50ea, but we refuse to sell them. People that buy these should be quite pissed, because the companies selling them should be selling the kits for <$250, but they are not, they are robbing you blind.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dellorto as carb producer is long Ghandi - but great carbs none the less.

Is Brosol still producing carburetors in Brazil?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks 79SuperVert.

So what I was hearing and suspecting is true.

Where does Redline Weber fit in this mix? Are they a distributor for Interco?

[email protected] confirmed some of the rumors I had heard. I'm not a fan of rumors so The Samba is the 'Snopes' site for ACVW guys that know the truth is out there...

Maybe the Subject line of this post should have read 'Buyer Beware'.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the first I've heard of "Counterfeit Spanish Webers". We buy from genuine sources ONLY, so I don't KNOW. We've been approached by Joe Schmoes selling stuff at too good to be true prices, but don't bite. I'm sure plenty of other guys do though, the temptation is too great.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aryue wrote:
Dellorto as carb producer is long Ghandi - but great carbs none the less.
Ah yes, the $64,000 question. When will the Chinese start building knockoff Dellortos?
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Mitey62 wrote:
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on.

RockCrusher wrote:
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have been wondering for years why they didn't copy the DRLA, instead they copied the IDF LOL
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dougy Dee wrote:
Thanks 79SuperVert.

So what I was hearing and suspecting is true.

Where does Redline Weber fit in this mix? Are they a distributor for Interco?


The part of that quote I left out was a plug for Webers from Redline. I'm not sure what that means.
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