Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Overheating in 50 degree weather?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
crvc
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 1283

crvc is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Overheating in 50 degree weather? Reply with quote

I have a '67 bug. All engine bay seals are in. There are no unneccesary holes in any of the engine tin. Necessary holes all have tight grommets. This bug could float, like the old VW ads showed.

The bug also has no vents in the engine lid. I posted a while ago about the bug dying on the first long drive of the year. You guys had suggestions but the consensus was vapor lock. Since then I've replaced the fuel pump, made sure the thermostat and flaps are all working, replaced the cloth and metal fuel line with German quality items.

Although it's a '67 bug the engine is a circa '73 DP 1640cc with a custom cam. So it produces a lot more heat than a standard bug but with no real venting to dissipate it. Am I doomed to use hinge standoffs? They look dorky as hell, like something a kid would do.

None of the other options seem any better. I don't want to cut up the lid. I don't want to remove the bay seals or tin. In Louisiana in August I never had my bug overheat and now I'm wondering if it was because I had left a lot of the seals and tinware off.

Any suggestions?

crvc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
GB2S
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2003
Posts: 838
Location: Omaha
GB2S is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a complete tuneup, timing, valve & point gap.

Geoff
_________________
1963 Ragtop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
crvc
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 1283

crvc is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GB2S wrote:
Do a complete tuneup, timing, valve & point gap.

Geoff


Did all that the day before the long drive.

crvc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Max Welton
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 8480
Location: Black Forest, CO
Max Welton is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommended a diagnostic step to show if you do or don't have a vapor lock problem.

Right after the engine stops, squirt some cold water on the pump and the fuel line. This will cause any vaporized fuel in the pump or line to cool and return to a liquid state that can be pumped.

If that helps, it was vapor lock.

Max
_________________
"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crvc
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 1283

crvc is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max Welton wrote:
I recommended a diagnostic step to show if you do or don't have a vapor lock problem.

Right after the engine stops, squirt some cold water on the pump and the fuel line. This will cause any vaporized fuel in the pump or line to cool and return to a liquid state that can be pumped.

If that helps, it was vapor lock.

Max


I left the engine idling for an hour or so but it didn't get hot enough to induce vapor lock. I had planned, on my next long drive, to bring a couple gallon jugs of water but haven't had the guts to try any long drives yet.

My wife is making a three hour drive to civilization (Salt Lake City) this weekend and will pick up a pair of standoffs.

crvc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Max Welton
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 8480
Location: Black Forest, CO
Max Welton is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You already know that if it quits, all you have to do is wait a while, right? So just go for a drive. Wink

Max
_________________
"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
GB2S
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2003
Posts: 838
Location: Omaha
GB2S is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a way to check Oil pressure, Oil temp. What is the status of the oil pressure relief valve. The thermostat might be working but are the fins operating properly. Have you drive with the heat on? (air flow)

Geoff
_________________
1963 Ragtop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AlteWagen
Troll


Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 6861

AlteWagen is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 1641 should not generate any more heat than a 1500 unless tuned incorrectly or has super high compression.

The only problem I see is if you really are overheating the paper thin cylinder walls of the 87mm slip in p&c, they are probably toast and will need replacement. The only thinner cylinders that were made were the 88mm slip ins which warped so bad that they stopped production.

I would do a compression test to see how badly they are damaged
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pantone149
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 840
Location: Monterey
pantone149 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save your money. Don't buy stand-offs. Do a tennis ball stand-off and see if it matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Max Welton
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 8480
Location: Black Forest, CO
Max Welton is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crvc wrote:
I left the engine idling for an hour or so but it didn't get hot enough to induce vapor lock. I had planned, on my next long drive, to bring a couple gallon jugs of water

One drinking water bottle is enough. Even a little squirt-bottle so you can just hit what you are aiming at.

I now have visions of you dumping a couple of gallons on your engine and drowning the ignition system. Laughing

Max
_________________
"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwsteve
Samba Member


Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1032
Location: Virginia
vwsteve is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dog house shroud needs more air. I have a 1200 converted to doghouse and it will run hot without stand offs or tennnis ball. With the tennis ball, it stays cool.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Eric&Barb
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 11368
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
Eric&Barb is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure the engine insulation on the front fire wall is not loose and getting sucked over the cooling fan opening.

Which fan shroud are you using?

What size cooling fan do you have?? Inside measurement between the discs that make up the fan body.

What cruising RPM are you running?

Do post images of the engine in question.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer


Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 6858
Location: At the wheel in N.C. U.S.A.
VOLKSWAGNUT is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pantone149 wrote:
Save your money. Don't buy stand-offs. Do a tennis ball stand-off and see if it matters.


I'd use the tennis ball way before stand offs.
With a bumper on the car you hardly even notice the lid cracked open with it.

You say its running hot.
How do you know? What actual measurements have you made, and if so what temps is the engine oil, and heads.

Are you assuming vapor lock means its overheating? Thats assuming wrong.

How is the fuel line routed?
Are you using a metal tube on the engine?
Are you using the proper fuel pump insulator?
_________________
WANTED> Local Eatin' Joints = Triple D for TheSamba ..contributions to this... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510&highlight=

aka Ken

Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch "IT" here.
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out.... then let em' rot out.
It's more about the going --- not the showing.
Rebuilt to drive not decorate.
Its your car.. do what YOU like for crying out loud.. stop askin' for approval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Max Welton
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 8480
Location: Black Forest, CO
Max Welton is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about we get everybody caught up?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502303

Max
_________________
"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
usrname
Samba Member


Joined: September 12, 2008
Posts: 167
Location: Arizona but not Phoenix
usrname is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you time the engine to total advance?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Bugugly
Samba Member


Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 277
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Bugugly is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried a dipstick sensor? Maybe it's not really that hot. If you have a sensor the oil light comes on when it gets hot. I swear by one..

http://www.savemybug.com
_________________
"When it rains...
It Pours"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Hammarlund
Samba Member


Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 1540
Location: Central Texas
Hammarlund is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yow! The OP's last post on the thread referenced by Max:

Quote:
I noticed the oil level is going up on the dipstick...


I hope the OP checked his oil to make sure it didn't smell like gasoline!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crvc
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 1283

crvc is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Hammarlund"]Yow! The OP's last post on the thread referenced by Max:

Quote:
I noticed the oil level is going up on the dipstick...


I hope the OP checked his oil to make sure it didn't smell like gasoline![/quote

Years ago I had a bug that kept filling the crankcase with gas. The root cause was not enough gaskets on the fuel pump. Ultimately I took the engine apart thinking the gas must have damaged the bearings. What I found was the cleanest innards I've ever seen on a motor. Plus the bearings looked fine. So for now I don't mind that this motor might be adding gas to the crankcase. I just don't drive it much while I wait for the new fuel pump vacuum guage to come in the mail.

crvc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Culito
11010101


Joined: December 07, 2006
Posts: 5398
Location: Columbia Missourah
Culito is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crvc wrote:
Hammarlund wrote:
Yow! The OP's last post on the thread referenced by Max:

Quote:
I noticed the oil level is going up on the dipstick...


I hope the OP checked his oil to make sure it didn't smell like gasoline!


Years ago I had a bug that kept filling the crankcase with gas. The root cause was not enough gaskets on the fuel pump. Ultimately I took the engine apart thinking the gas must have damaged the bearings. What I found was the cleanest innards I've ever seen on a motor. Plus the bearings looked fine. So for now I don't mind that this motor might be adding gas to the crankcase. I just don't drive it much while I wait for the new fuel pump vacuum guage to come in the mail.

crvc


How's that happen? Confused
_________________
Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'62 Turkis fleet
johnnypan wrote:
...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Max Welton
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 8480
Location: Black Forest, CO
Max Welton is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is a "fuel pump vacuum gauge"?

Max
_________________
"Someone" told him it was true. That should be good enough for anybody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB