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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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The reason I suggested a new fuel line is because you are saying yours has been bent and re-bent many times. That is a very serious fire hazard.
If you don't have an actual vapor-lock issue with the existin fuel line, make the new one just like the old one.
You still haven't done the cold-water test to see if this really is vapor lock, have you?
Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836 |
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crvc
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| craigman wrote: |
Ok, since you don't seem to be listening, i'll try to make this real simple.
1) is ALL your cooling tin in place?
Yes, every piece is accounted for.
2) do you have the correct spark plugs?
I use what Napa recommended.
3) what is your timing set at? If it's retarded it can run hot.
7.5btdc
4) do you have a CLEAN supply of fuel?
Well I don't buy it from the ranch co-op so I assume so.
5) do you have the correct fan for the shroud you have?
I'm using the fan that was in the DP engine.
6) is anything blocking the intake of the fan? Reach in there and find out.
I feel the air blowing, no obstructions.
7) is the fan tight where it bolts the the back of the generator?
Yes, tight and torqued to manual specs.
8- is the fan belt tight?
5/8" deflection.
9) is your thermostat working correctly? If in doubt, wire it open and take it for a drive and see what happens.
60 mm long when room temp. 70mm long after 20 minutes in a 200 degree oven.
These are thing you need to do FIRST before you buy or change one single part. If you don't you are just wasting time and money.
Now just don't assume you know all the answers here, go out and double check everything and report back to us. |
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craigman
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 2397
Location: redding
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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You "assume" your getting a good clean supply of fuel. Your wrong. Quit assuming anything.
You said earlier you had to pull out the filter cuz it was plugged or dirty.
How are you setting your timing? With or without vaccume?
Do you know if you even have the correct pulley for your engine?
Do you have the correct distributor for your engine?
Have you checked your muffler to see if it's restricting airflow? Could have a broken deflector plate inside.
Have you tried to wire open the flaps and take it for a drive? |
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Hammarlund
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 1539
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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This engine has gasoline in the sump and is exhibiting symptoms of fuel starvation (which is why the OP assumes he has vapor lock). This was admitted piecemeal in various posts.
That's gas in the sump, and fuel starvation.
He's been driving it with gas in the sump, because it's his only mode of transportation. And now, its starting to run hot...
I hope he will follow Max's excellent advice, the very next time the problem occurs, and test to confirm or eliminate vapor lock.
However, I don't think vapor lock usually causes gas in the sump. |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8503
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Hammarlund wrote: |
| I don't think vapor lock usually causes gas in the sump. |
The following can cause gas in the sump:
A bad fuel pump
Excessive fuel pressure
A bad float valve
If there is gas in the sump the oil is not able to do its job and the bearings are probably wasted. If the gas is washing down the cylinders from raw gas pouring down the manifold the cylinders and rings are also damaged. |
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BDSBSS23
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2008
Posts: 1817
Location: Colorado
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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crvc
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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That's my guess as well. In the medical world we try to find the root problem that explains all the symptoms. But if there is more than one problem causing symptoms it gets complicated.
For me, the fuel pump was bad, sometimes showing 1psi and sometimes showing >7psi. At 1psi the carb eventually ran out of gas. At 7psi excess gas was spurting down the shaft, entering the crankcase. The bug has no vents in the hood and I went to pains to ensure no breaks in the engine bay seals and tinware. I boasted that my bug could float. The metal fuel tube was laying on the hottest part of the engine. Plus it had been bent and rebent leaving several kinks. I don't know how much of a factor it is but the engine has an aftermarket camshaft. Wouldn't that create more heat than a stock item?
The last of the parts came in yesteday so when I get the time I'm planning to try to fix all the problems. I have standoffs but don't want to use them. Instead I'll carry a gallon jug of water. If I have to use it then I'll know in need the standoffs in.
Thanks for all the help and healthy criticism.
crvc |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8503
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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personally I dont like the standoffs, when it rains the engine gets pretty wet. If the engine runs warm I usually use the tennis ball trick just to prop the bottom of the lid open a few inches which let the fan pull the needed air. In my 60 beetle I had a stock decklid but upgraded to a doghouse fan/shroud/oil cooler and noticed the engine would run hotter than before. VW added 4 vents to the decklid when it installed the doghouse cooling set up so the factory did realize that the engine needed additional air to the engine compartment. I installed a vert decklid and the cooling issue was resolved. The thing is that even with the stock decklid the engine never "overheated" like you describe. I noticed increased CHT and OT by looking at the gauges. Like mentioned above I would get at least CHT and OT but also recommed the OP as well.
I recommend the following:
Oil change with correct grade and zinc
valve adjustment
replace metal fuel line and filters
adjust the points with dwell meter
adjust timing with timing light, vacuum disconnected and plugged
Install your new exhaust
replace the manifold to head gasket with quality thick paper type
replace center section to end piece donuts with quality units
Adjust carb settings
One thing no one mentioned is where are you located? I noticed increased engine temps when moving to northern california. It seems that the e-10 gas required that I move up in jet sizes as the stock jetting was too small causing a lean condition. |
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Hammarlund
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 1539
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The following can cause gas in the sump:
A bad fuel pump
Excessive fuel pressure
A bad float valve |
Yep. Anything's possible, but those three things probably account for ninety-nine percent of all cases.
And, while the gas in the sump isn't the only symptom, and may not be the only problem, why wouldn't one at least find the reason gas is getting into the sump, as part of the troubleshooting procedure?
Since you are in the medical field, think of it this way; a patient is having trouble with fainting/dizziness. Their physician notices they have undiagnosed/untreated diabetes, but suspects the patient may also have other problems. Wouldn't the physician treat the diabetes to see if the dizziness goes away, while looking for other things?
So find out why you have gas in the sump.
You can listen to the air intake on the carb for gurgling when the engine is warm and first shut off, which usually means the float/seat/valve is bad.
You already know how to check/adjust fuel pressure, and either should have your gauge by now, or have it shortly. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| crvc wrote: |
I have standoffs but don't want to use them. Instead I'll carry a gallon jug of water. If I have to use it then I'll know in need the standoffs in.
Thanks for all the help and healthy criticism.
crvc |
Is there a reason you dont want to try a Tennis Ball? Its been mentioned severla times. No need for the stand offs.
Its a validated repair to help engine overheating.
If nothing else its a quick test.
You dont have to run out and buy a ball, just use your imagination and find something to prop the lid open, to gulp some cool air in. After all you're still testing.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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crvc
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| crvc wrote: |
I have standoffs but don't want to use them. Instead I'll carry a gallon jug of water. If I have to use it then I'll know in need the standoffs in.
Thanks for all the help and healthy criticism.
crvc |
Is there a reason you dont want to try a Tennis Ball? Its been mentioned severla times. No need for the stand offs.
Its a validated repair to help engine overheating.
If nothing else its a quick test.
You dont have to run out and buy a ball, just use your imagination and find something to prop the lid open, to gulp some cool air in. After all you're still testing. |
I thought about the tennis ball but couldn't figure a way to secure it without baling wire or drilling holes. I also looked at making a bottom standoff but the same problem: drilling holes.
The bug has been tuned and timed. The new fuel pump produces 3psi according to the new fuel guage. I don't think it would affect engine heat but I had a new distributor that came with Petronix electronic ignition. The unit died after six months and since it's warranteed I ordered a new one. It came today but I see it's for a different distributor so I sent it back for the third time. It came with the Flamethrower high-power coil. I wondered if that was maybe increasing engine heat, especially with the old stock distributor.
Next step is to replace the old metal fuel line. Then replace the stock muffler with the cheap low restriction model. I'm hoping this solves the problem but I'm keeping the standoffs in the glove box for insurance.
I've known for a while the excess fuel pump pressure was the reason for gas in the crankcase. It's a problem I'd seen in other bugs. Since resetting the fuel pump and replacing the oil the dipstick level has been static.
crvc |
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pb_foots
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 1089
Location: Ben Lomond, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| cut a slit in the tennis ball. push the ball over the latch on the engine cover. That will give you a little breathing room, and the ball will prevent rattles. No bailing wire or duct tape needed! |
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