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ZachL Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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First steps and do's/don'ts when purchasing a non-running Type 4 engine?!?
New to me 1972 Bus 1.7L w/ progressive Holley carb (yes I know it sucks). Only plans right now is to check/add oil, drain/replace fuel, hook-up new battery, starter fluid, and crank the thing lol
Any advice/pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Zach |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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ZachL wrote: |
First steps and do's/don'ts when purchasing a non-running Type 4 engine?!?
New to me 1972 Bus 1.7L w/ progressive Holley carb (yes I know it sucks). Only plans right now is to check/add oil, drain/replace fuel, hook-up new battery, starter fluid, and crank the thing lol
Any advice/pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Zach |
Do NOT over tighten the drain/strainer cover nut as it's only something like 10 inch 9 foot pounds Darn I can't remember exactly. If you do over tighten it then it breaks a cam support inside.
Adjust the valves...
New fuel lines...
New fuel filter...
Edited Tcash _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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eddieshore Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016 Posts: 3 Location: Pacific Northwest
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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I need to put a new engine in my 1973 Westfalia w/ automatic transmission.My question is can I go to a later model engine such as the 1976-79 2000cc to get more HP and possibly fuel injection, or do I have to stick with the 1700cc? I don't want to have make a lot of modifications. Also, where is the best place to purchase a rebuilt engine? I live in the Vancouver, Canada area and would like to purchase in CDN$ but do have full access to the US market as I live close to the border. Thanks for any help/suggestions. |
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galencurrington Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2004 Posts: 426 Location: bowling green, ky
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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They make big bore slip in piston kits for the early blocks I think it turns them into a 1.9 _________________ "asking and getting are two different things" |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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Thin wall cylinders don't do to well when used on type 1's, a similar kit for a type 4 is just plain scary, maybe OK in a light 914 but bus no bueno IMO.
Eddie, there's nothing wrong with a 1700 although most cylinders and pistons sold now are for 1800's, an easy upgrade by machining the heads, the barrels already fit the case. The longer stroke 2000 offers more torque in the lower end but can't rev as high and runs out of power at very inconvenient times when coupled to the 002 transmission in a 73, unless you plan to change the transmission to a 6 rib you'll be dissapointed.
What's wrong with your engine right now? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50262
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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eddieshore wrote: |
I need to put a new engine in my 1973 Westfalia w/ automatic transmission.My question is can I go to a later model engine such as the 1976-79 2000cc to get more HP and possibly fuel injection, or do I have to stick with the 1700cc? I don't want to have make a lot of modifications. Also, where is the best place to purchase a rebuilt engine? I live in the Vancouver, Canada area and would like to purchase in CDN$ but do have full access to the US market as I live close to the border. Thanks for any help/suggestions. |
All the stock Type 4 Bay engines were physically the same on the outside, excepting the '79 which had different exhaust ports than the earlier engines. A 1700 engine can be upgraded to an 1800 by installing a 93mm Type 4 piston and jug set and doing minor head upgrades. To build a 2000 you need a 2000 cc crank and rods plus 2000cc P&C's and upgraded heads. |
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eddieshore Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016 Posts: 3 Location: Pacific Northwest
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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So rather than rebuilding my 1700cc engine I was thinking about purchasing an already rebuilt engine and just swapping it out. That's why I was asking where would be the best place to purchase one? I also know how finicky carbs can be so was wondering if fuel injection would be a better option?
I'm not the most mechanically inclined person which I know is not the best combination with an old bus. I do minor work on my own cars such as brakes, minor tune-ups, etc but have never done any major engine work. We bought the Westy as a tribute to our son who passed away a few years ago. He had one when he was a teenager and fortunately he was very mechanically inclined so could keep his bus in top running condition.
We don't plan to use the Westy as a daily driver, mainly for beach camping trips, pleasure drives and as a backup when one of our regular cars is in for repairs. Just don't always want to be that guy pulling off to the side of the road to let everyone else pass |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50262
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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The fuel system is not part of a normal rebuilt engine. Most people just reuse their old fuel system when a rebuild is done. If you want to change out your fuel system you need to either pay an experienced person to do the work and or to go through the trials of doing it yourself. Be aware that when you change your fuel system you are also going to be effecting your crankcase ventilation system and if you don't get this right your engine may experience accelerated wear or maybe even blow all the oil out and lock up as a result. |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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you might need to get used to the "let them pass" syndrome as even the 2.0 is not going as fast as anything on the road. FI is probably out of the question due to the multiple systems needed to keep it happy.
I have changed up to 1800 and the 1800 bigger valved heads. on my 1700. Now have some nice dual /4 throat carbs to super tune each cylinder.
If your willing to spend the big bucks on a t-4 to get it to move with traffic- you can visit the "type 4 store" and take advantage of Jake Raby's years of experimentation that has perfected the T-4 motor about as far as it can go. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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eddieshore Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016 Posts: 3 Location: Pacific Northwest
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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Thanks for all the great replies. Much appreciated! Gives me lots to think about and it's great to draw on other's experiences. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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eddieshore wrote: |
So rather than rebuilding my 1700cc engine I was thinking about purchasing an already rebuilt engine and just swapping it out. That's why I was asking where would be the best place to purchase one? I also know how finicky carbs can be so was wondering if fuel injection would be a better option?
I'm not the most mechanically inclined person which I know is not the best combination with an old bus. I do minor work on my own cars such as brakes, minor tune-ups, etc but have never done any major engine work. We bought the Westy as a tribute to our son who passed away a few years ago. He had one when he was a teenager and fortunately he was very mechanically inclined so could keep his bus in top running condition.
We don't plan to use the Westy as a daily driver, mainly for beach camping trips, pleasure drives and as a backup when one of our regular cars is in for repairs. Just don't always want to be that guy pulling off to the side of the road to let everyone else pass |
Better take a short break on this one to think it thru. Right now there are few what many of us would call reliable crate motors. The few that are available are probably way outside most folk's budget. Usually when one starts checking out the affordable crate motors, and they see that the reliability is down the road to the second camping trip, they realize that is not a workable solution either. Making matters worse is the cost of shipping. If one is in the Pacific Northwest, they may have to pay shipping for 1500 miles on a motor, sometimes more than once if it fails. The one fellow many were relying on was Adrian in San Diego County but some have shown issues with his motors late last year. I don't know how that played out and if the issues were resolved. Additionally, it isn't just the core engine that becomes the challenge. There are hoses, injection or carbs, wiring, pieces of tin - some broken and some missing etc that become a real challenge. Eventually someone who wants a reliable bus ends up doing it themselves.
My suggestion would be to find a mentor who knows buses and who can help you. Maybe you might want to post where you are in the Pacific Northwest, and what kind of budget you see yourself being able to commit to in this project. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Amskeptic Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002 Posts: 8568 Location: All Across The Country
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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Bleyseng wrote: |
Do NOT over tighten the drain/strainer cover nut as it's only something like 10 inch 9 foot pounds Darn I can't remember exactly. Edited Tcash |
THEN LOOK IT UP before you post! Don't leave crazy numbers hanging on the internet where innumerable Type 4 newbies will have strainer plates falling off and looping up past the guardrail.
7-9 ft/lbs
You're welcome, Bleyseng. most welcome, I need to drive your Porsche 914 this summer after I torque those Fuchs to 75 inch pounds or something.
Colin _________________ www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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Tcash wrote: |
Every Type IV engine owner should know this!!!
There is a Oil strainer in there.
TORQUE THE STRAINER BOLT TO NO MORE THAN 9 FT. LBS. |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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bought a box of T4 intake valves misc and included some really huge intakes --can any one enlighten me as to what ran 47mm ? _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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guess: someone with 100 or 101mm+ cylinders?
or they are intended to be cut-down to custom size on a lathe. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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williamM wrote: |
bought a box of T4 intake valves misc and included some really huge intakes --can any one enlighten me as to what ran 47mm ? |
How do you KNOW they are for a T4 engine? _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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asiab3 wrote: |
williamM wrote: |
bought a box of T4 intake valves misc and included some really huge intakes --can any one enlighten me as to what ran 47mm ? |
How do you KNOW they are for a T4 engine? |
UHAAA- the card board box said so _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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williamM wrote: |
asiab3 wrote: |
williamM wrote: |
bought a box of T4 intake valves misc and included some really huge intakes --can any one enlighten me as to what ran 47mm ? |
How do you KNOW they are for a T4 engine? |
UHAAA- the card board box said so |
Racing 914 that doesn't need an idle speed _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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williamM wrote: |
asiab3 wrote: |
williamM wrote: |
bought a box of T4 intake valves misc and included some really huge intakes --can any one enlighten me as to what ran 47mm ? |
How do you KNOW they are for a T4 engine? |
UHAAA- the card board box said so |
Haha ok! So many parts get passed on as "yeah these are for buses I think" or "this is for the bus with the Porsche engine" that I have to be skeptical..
Since you have a box for them, there should be a part number that you could search on Google. If you don't get any results, post the numbers here!
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: The Type 4 Engine Thread |
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asiab3 wrote: |
williamM wrote: |
asiab3 wrote: |
williamM wrote: |
bought a box of T4 intake valves misc and included some really huge intakes --can any one enlighten me as to what ran 47mm ? |
How do you KNOW they are for a T4 engine? |
UHAAA- the card board box said so |
Haha ok! So many parts get passed on as "yeah these are for buses I think" or "this is for the bus with the Porsche engine" that I have to be skeptical..
Since you have a box for them, there should be a part number that you could search on Google. If you don't get any results, post the numbers here!
Robbie |
Actually- it's written in crayon (hint hint) on the valve head -- pics to follow. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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