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my 74 tangerine westy
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2012
Posts: 161
Location: walla walla Washington
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 Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I got a 1800 cc for rebuild the other day I have it so I stripped it down and removed all the nuts and I`m trying to split the case but it just doesn't want to go any suggestions? I don't have a case splitter tool |
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AB westy nut
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2010
Posts: 1124
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| my 74 tangerine westy wrote: |
| I got a 1800 cc for rebuild the other day I have it so I stripped it down and removed all the nuts and I`m trying to split the case but it just doesn't want to go any suggestions? I don't have a case splitter tool |
You've missed a fastener somewhere. Check very carefully before you start prying!
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1963 Ruby Red 356 Cabriolet
1976 Sage Green Westfalia Deluxe |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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my 74 tangerine westy
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2012
Posts: 161
Location: walla walla Washington
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| So now I got the case split lets talk lifters what are the advantages to going hydrolic besides no more valve ajstments. Is it mostly personal preferance or dose it help with preformence? |
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Bleyseng
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:10 am Post subject: |
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You still need to do valve adjustments, they are just quieter. As for performance I find them to give you slightly less performance. New correct valve springs, pushrods and solid spacers are needed besides a matched cam and lifter set.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| my 74 tangerine westy wrote: |
| So now I got the case split lets talk lifters what are the advantages to going hydrolic besides no more valve ajstments. Is it mostly personal preferance or dose it help with preformence? |
For hydraulics to work well you need to keep the engine super clean inside. If you run dyno oil and tend to forget to do oil changes then hydraulics are not for you. Of course if you run solids and don't do valve adjustments often enough either then solids are not for you either. Hydraulics don't need frequent valve adjustments, if the heads are well build an adjustment every 50K or more miles should be fine. As Bleyseng noted you need the correct valve springs, pushrods, and rocker spacers. |
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Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| my 74 tangerine westy wrote: |
| So now I got the case split lets talk lifters what are the advantages to going hydrolic besides no more valve ajstments. Is it mostly personal preferance or dose it help with preformence? |
For hydraulics to work well you need to keep the engine super clean inside. If you run dyno oil and tend to forget to do oil changes then hydraulics are not for you. Of course if you run solids and don't do valve adjustments often enough either then solids are not for you either. Hydraulics don't need frequent valve adjustments, if the heads are well build an adjustment every 50K or more miles should be fine. As Bleyseng noted you need the correct valve springs, pushrods, and rocker spacers. |
come to think of it...if you dont maintain you cars every 1500-3000 miles, you should go with a civic.....
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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my 74 tangerine westy
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2012
Posts: 161
Location: walla walla Washington
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks by the way I'm very particular about servicing my bus |
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Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| my 74 tangerine westy wrote: |
| Thanks by the way I'm very particular about servicing my bus |
this will serve you very well in the long run, and keep your bus on the road much longer. if you get it going, make a thread and post some pictures of the build, or of you using it etc...id love to watch you enjoy it! (i like following bus's from my seat  )
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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tootype2crazy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hydraulic lifters are for people who drive their bus daily. If you don't do that, don't get them. There is no performance difference between them and a stock mechanical cam. That being said, the options for a performance cam with solid lifters are there and non existent with hydraulics.
_________________
air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
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nathansnathan
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008
Posts: 1671
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters ...There is no performance difference between them and a stock mechanical cam. |
This isn't really the thread for questions and debates, like any question that relates to a type 4 engine gets posted here? Seems like only solid info belongs here .... like the info on page 4 of this thread that says intake and exhaust have less duration and lift is greatly reduced with a hydraulic cam - which equates to less performance.
| Quote: |
Stock Mechanical
Intake lift 0.393
intake duration: 247
exhaust lift .368
exhaust duration: 242
IO: -3 BTDC
IC: 33 ABDC
EO: 31 BBDC
EC: -5 ATDC
ILC: 108
[email protected]: 210
ELC: 108
[email protected]: 206
Stock Hydraulic
Intake lift 0.333
intake duration: 227
exhaust lift .318
exhaust duration: 230
IO: -10 BTDC
IC: 26 ABDC
EO: 26 BBDC
EC: -10 ATDC
ILC: 108
[email protected]: 210
ELC: 108
[email protected]: 196 |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| nathansnathan wrote: |
| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters ...There is no performance difference between them and a stock mechanical cam. |
This isn't really the thread for questions and debates, like any question that relates to a type 4 engine gets posted here? Seems like only solid info belongs here .... like the info on page 4 of this thread that says intake and exhaust have less duration and lift is greatly reduced with a hydraulic cam - which equates to less performance.
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The hydraulics have no lash, so they actually have comparable lift and duration in the real world. They also have steeper ramps for crisper opening because they don't have to "dampen" the lift...
My hydraulic 2000 in the BobD is pretty darn sprightly, by cracky.
Colin
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nathansnathan
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008
Posts: 1671
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| nathansnathan wrote: |
| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters ...There is no performance difference between them and a stock mechanical cam. |
This isn't really the thread for questions and debates, like any question that relates to a type 4 engine gets posted here? Seems like only solid info belongs here .... like the info on page 4 of this thread that says intake and exhaust have less duration and lift is greatly reduced with a hydraulic cam - which equates to less performance.
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The hydraulics have no lash, so they actually have comparable lift and duration in the real world. They also have steeper ramps for crisper opening because they don't have to "dampen" the lift...
My hydraulic 2000 in the BobD is pretty darn sprightly, by cracky.
Colin |
The valve lash is only .006 and that is cold. Plus, wiht the expansion rates of the stock push rod material, you lose power at temperature with hydraulic, and gain it with solid. I can't think of any objective factors that would be in favor of a hydraulic cam's performance. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| nathansnathan wrote: |
| Amskeptic wrote: |
| nathansnathan wrote: |
| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters ...There is no performance difference between them and a stock mechanical cam. |
This isn't really the thread for questions and debates, like any question that relates to a type 4 engine gets posted here? Seems like only solid info belongs here .... like the info on page 4 of this thread that says intake and exhaust have less duration and lift is greatly reduced with a hydraulic cam - which equates to less performance.
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The hydraulics have no lash, so they actually have comparable lift and duration in the real world. They also have steeper ramps for crisper opening because they don't have to "dampen" the lift...
My hydraulic 2000 in the BobD is pretty darn sprightly, by cracky.
Colin |
The valve lash is only .006 and that is cold. Plus, wiht the expansion rates of the stock push rod material, you lose power at temperature with hydraulic, and gain it with solid. I can't think of any objective factors that would be in favor of a hydraulic cam's performance. |
Hydraulics stay in adjustment for a wide temperature range and automatically account for wear. The only place where they don't do as well is at very high rpm's, well above what most people run there engines at, or with radical cam profiles. Few people get more than 150K out of a solid lifter engine before they lose a valve because they have missed an adjustment or three, where as hydraulic lifter engines will go 300K or more.
It amazes me that people have to have a Pertronix module so that they don't have to learn how change out and properly set points once ever 20K miles or so, but find solid lifters (which they have to deal with every few thousand miles or they will waste out an engine) superior to hydraulic lifters. This from a guy who has 250K miles with solid lifters since his last rebuild/head work.
IMHO most people should be running hydraulic lifters combined with synthetic oils, sadly the fewer times most people have to put a wrench to their engine the better. |
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MightyMicroBus
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2013
Posts: 1
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:22 pm Post subject: Type 4 F.I. Thread? |
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I found a Type 4 (only) fuel injection thread on The Samba a few weeks ago. The browser tab closed and I can't find it again through search for some reason. Can anybody point me to it?
Thanks,
Bill |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 F.I. Thread? |
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| MightyMicroBus wrote: |
I found a Type 4 (only) fuel injection thread on The Samba a few weeks ago. The browser tab closed and I can't find it again through search for some reason. Can anybody point me to it?
Thanks,
Bill |
Welcome Bill,
Was it the "I need help with fuel injection" thread by any chance? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482560
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Bleyseng
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| nathansnathan wrote: |
| Amskeptic wrote: |
| nathansnathan wrote: |
| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Hydraulic lifters ...There is no performance difference between them and a stock mechanical cam. |
This isn't really the thread for questions and debates, like any question that relates to a type 4 engine gets posted here? Seems like only solid info belongs here .... like the info on page 4 of this thread that says intake and exhaust have less duration and lift is greatly reduced with a hydraulic cam - which equates to less performance.
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The hydraulics have no lash, so they actually have comparable lift and duration in the real world. They also have steeper ramps for crisper opening because they don't have to "dampen" the lift...
My hydraulic 2000 in the BobD is pretty darn sprightly, by cracky.
Colin |
The valve lash is only .006 and that is cold. Plus, wiht the expansion rates of the stock push rod material, you lose power at temperature with hydraulic, and gain it with solid. I can't think of any objective factors that would be in favor of a hydraulic cam's performance. |
Hydraulics stay in adjustment for a wide temperature range and automatically account for wear. The only place where they don't do as well is at very high rpm's, well above what most people run there engines at, or with radical cam profiles. Few people get more than 150K out of a solid lifter engine before they lose a valve because they have missed an adjustment or three, where as hydraulic lifter engines will go 300K or more.
It amazes me that people have to have a Pertronix module so that they don't have to learn how change out and properly set points once ever 20K miles or so, but find solid lifters (which they have to deal with every few thousand miles or they will waste out an engine) superior to hydraulic lifters. This from a guy who has 250K miles with solid lifters since his last rebuild/head work.
IMHO most people should be running hydraulic lifters combined with synthetic oils, sadly the fewer times most people have to put a wrench to their engine the better. |
My experience is that hydro cam don't last as long as the lifters are always in contact with the cam so it wears out faster. Yes, solids rev higher than hydro lifters. I also think that the valve seats get pounded more with hydros as the valve springs are heavier rate of spring and the ramps are steeper.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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Hoody
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup...pretty much what Jake has been professing for at least ten years. |
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1967250s
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 2137
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| 1700cc, solids, pertronix, baby Dells, regular valve and maintanence checks. 300K + miles. Still same cam and solids. Runs great! |
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my 74 tangerine westy
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2012
Posts: 161
Location: walla walla Washington
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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so I bought an AW core long block but now I also have an ED short block I want to put the ED code together but I have a couple of questions
1: how well does dual PDSIT's work on a originally injected engine?
2: If I wanted to how hard would it be to put a fuel injection system in a non injected bus?
3: How do you hook up the thermostat on type 4's?
4: is the injected cam different than a carbed cam stock? |
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